Third parties have failed for two major reasons: people have liked Dems up to now, and people have correctly believed 3rd party was a throwaway vote. But if a critical mass of voters starts to hate Dems enough, maybe a large grassroots campaign can get people to believe that other people will also vote for the new party.
It might be too late / too slow, because there would perhaps be a transition election where the new party and the Dems each get around 25% of the vote, handing everything to the Nazi party in a giftbasket (but then again, Dems are gonna lose even without the help of a third party). Maybe the election after that is when Dems would be pushed to fringe 3rd-party status and the new party could actually win. And then maybe the Dems just fuck off for good and weāre back to a two-party system, but one where the two parties arenāt playing for the same team, one where you can vote in the better party with full confidence that they wonāt throw refugees into gitmo.
Theoretically thereās not a big difference between that and just voting in a bunch of progs to the Democratic party, but the party itself is corrupt and, more importantly, the Dem brand is tainted. With all the gerrymandering and fuckery, weāre gonna need to win over red voters, and the (D) next to a candidateās name is a non-starter for them. A new brand and real things to offer to working people might win over the kind of crowd who, in Florida, voted for a $15/hr wage but also for Trump.
These people only want socialism for white people. You canāt really win them over with progressive policy. They will accept a progressive policy only if it comes with structural barriers that prevent non-whites from accessing it. A sort of, uh, Nationalist Socialism. Thats not really what progressives are going for.
I mean they hate progressives more than they hate shitlibs for the most part. Right wing media is super effective and melting their brains and getting them to hate anything that threatens rich people. Weāre never winning them over to the cause of good.
I think the simplest way to view the overall problem is that the billionaire class owns most of the media and most of the politicians. Explain how they ever let progress happen that would threaten their wealth and status? Thatās why you can organize and donate and vote and have no chance to fix anything. The system isnāt at risk of becoming rigged, we are already there and have been for decades.
Dems being Dems is a symptom instead of the root cause.
Rich people dominating society and owning politicians has been a problem since forever. Wealth concentration was every bit as bad in the early 1900s. Political corruption was rampant. Private, corporate media was a major issue. And yet.
The country has moved way left. Taxing wealthy people is now overwhelmingly popular. Gay marriage, pot, climate, housing, everything. That shift is seen in national representativesā median liberalism, but thatās obscured by two shitheads running the show in the US Senate.
Again, I think weāre fucked. But we are a lot closer than you make it seem and the country has overcome even larger obstacles before.
Maybe Iām just a sweet summer child but Iām not convinced weād be seeing the same situation if Dems had picked up 2 Senate seats. Theyāre still only effectively in control of 1.5/3 branches of govt.
Weād get a real BBB and maybe a voting rights compromise, which are both important wins, but weād still have the filibuster in place and come up woefully short on immigration, student loans, etc.
Whatās really sad is that there are policy prescriptions that would correct Americaās biggest democracy problems. American laws on donations to politicians are way too lax. The dark money in US politics is way out of control. Obviously its stupid to have election outcomes that depend on private and virtually unlimited donations. And you canāt really have meaningful elections with widespread misinformation. American superficial attitudes toward FREEZE PEACH and stupid slippery slope arguments is a fatal self inflicted wound.
While arguments about the necessity for this voter rights law, that GND, etc are all valid, they donāt get at the root causes of the failure of democracy in the US. Thatās why things are/feel so hopeless. Even IF the Dem infrastructure passes, voter right legislation passes, etc., without more fundamental changes the next elections are going to be just as stupid. There are no winners in an election between white supremacists with degrees from Facebook U vs. corporate interests that just want stability with low taxes and subsidies.
So how does Europe manage it then? Iām not buying the whole āthis is how itās always been everywhereā argument you seem to be making. You donāt think Citizens United further exacerbated it? Iām not saying corruption does not exist to some extent everywhere. Iām saying the level of corruption here literally prevents this country from accomplishing things that have been the norm in the rest of the first world. That isnāt a well itās always been like that situation, itās the literal problem.
Like we sit here and talk about how Manchin is owned by the coal industry like thatās normal. That should not be normal.
Maybe this country has moved left on some social issues but it hadnāt moved left on most other issues. Also letās not forget all of the progress on social issues has happened through state laws mostly, not federal laws. Marijuana is still federally illegal for example.
I think the public is pretty left on a lot of meat & potatoes issues, but the whole system of government is tilted to give a minority of angry Boomers disproportionate power.
It looks exactly like what it is: a fake wrestling āmatchā with one side saddled with professional jobbers who arenāt trying to win and drawing dead to any meaningful victory. I could understand not realizing it back in 2008, but as Wichita said, they snatched the trifecta and super majority at one point which is completely inconceivable today. With the rigged voting, that is such a preposterous and overwhelming mandate for whatever pony mirage they were promising, and what were they able to deliver? Astronomical gifts for banks and insurance companies of course!
Is this true? I havenāt been following all that closely, but JFC it feels like this is the first Iām hearing it. Just a horrible messaging failure and it makes you smarter than all of them.
It reminds me of something Cory Booker said on one of the Sunday shows (paraphrasing): āWhen Trumpās big tax cut was on the table, that wasnāt a 2 trillion dollar bill. It was a 5 trillion dollar bill, 3 trillion of which was paid for, so you and everybody else called it a 2 trillion dollar bill. This 3.5 trillion dollar infrastructure bill is fully paid for, so why arenāt you calling it a zero-dollar bill?ā GOOD QUESTION.
