I think I mentioned this once before but in Donna Brazile’s book she writes about how there was a guy dressed as Donald Duck showing up to Trump events because Trump was “ducking” releasing his tax returns. They ran into copyright objections from Disney (obviously) and when Donna was like “this is us doing this? wtf, we gotta shut this down, who thought this was a good idea?” she discovered it was Hillary’s idea. Her personally.
I’m just gonna call bullshit without even asking for a source
I knew very little of HRC except that she was a centrist Dem and seemed pretty competent, then HRC appeared on the Graham Norton show not long after the election (Graham’s show consists of 3/4 guests who have a wee drink and chat, with some random comedy thrown about) and HRC was not on with the other guests and that just about said all I needed to know.
I’ll add that If you’re a A list Celebrity, Graham is who you goto so she could have asked for a line up that suited her.
No, no it’s not.
Glad you have an opinion. So do I. It’s a shame he’ll doesn’t exist. She deserves to rot it in.
Finally something we 100% agree on 
Except you left out the most important error. She forgot to: HAVE A MESSAGE! Her entire campaign seemed based on, “Well at least I’m not as bad as this guy…”
I agree with you on a lot of stuff. I can’t think of anyone who’s been so maligned so consistently for so many years as HRC. I also can’t think of anyone who was subjected to so many ridiculous conspiracy theories. On paper, she was probably one of the most qualified candidates in recent memory to ever run for the office of President. But when you take away her resume she truly was a shitty candidate for all the reasons @boredsocial and others have stated
I’m glad you have that opinion, whether I agree or not but this is a public friendly forum and we’d like to keep it that way.
Some comments are best left at home.
Yeah, you ain’t talking me into deleting it.
OK 
I don’t feel like going point by point, and I concede I have a Hilldawg blind spot that makes me unable to understand why so many people think that she was categorically worse than like Al Gore or John Kerry, but I’ll just put it this way: exaggerating Hilldawg’s weaknesses and focusing on her apparent WOATness as a candidate is a leak if you want to understand why stable genius beat her, and why he’s far more live to win in 2020 than this forum tends to think. Note, Hilldawg went from being the most respected public official (60%+ approval rating) during her SOS tenure, except for the end when the Fox News machine began the Benghazi crusade.
I did want to say one specific thing, the idea that her husband’s philandering positioned her poorly to capitalize on the Hollywood Access tape: first, I don’t agree with the standard that women married to scoundrels must bear the sins of the their husbands, but second, the moral rot that existed in the country that prevented people from rejecting stable en masse after he was caught on tape bragging about sexually assaulting women had nothing to do with Hilldawg. If it wasn’t clear to joe/jane q voter that the vibrant young man was utterly unfit to be elected after that tape, then the marginal tactical mistakes Hilldawg may have made don’t seem like they would have mattered much to people who heard the tape and somehow still voted for sharpie man.
Oh, she also won the popular vote by ~2.3 million; oh, the Russians also conducted state-sponsored war on her candidacy, and it seems like she is being blamed for not fighting back well enough? That was O’Bummer’s job.
4 Likes
Said better than I could.
We shouldn’t have to attack GOP members. If anyone here hasn’t yet figured out that McConnell, Graham and the whole lot of these spineless evil cowards aren’t pure evil by now and a cancer to all out country stands for, they never will
The task at hand is getting our own party in order. And to do that, we absolutely need to call out people like Pelosi and other Dems for caring more about their political careers than what the morally right thing to do is. This is much more important than Trump and GOP bashing at this point. Young progressives such as myself who were instrumental in electing true progressives like Katie Porter, and the squad are sick to death of the olds and their ways. We have almost nothing in common with Pelosi Biden or Hillary fucking Clinton. We may as well not even be in the same party. It’s time for a changing of the guard and get this old fucks both Dems and GOP the hell out!
First, we all need to get on the same page and dominantly crush the next elections at the local and national levels. Only then will justice finally come to the evil and traitorous GOP. I means sue, we can talk about the new misdeeds of the GOP. But the focus needs to be on installing a progressive wave imo
2 Likes
She still could’ve had a message. If she did, I don’t know what it was. Do you?
On the contrary, for all hits unfitness and mental illnesses Trump DID deliver messages whether we agreed with them or not. Some I actually did agree with him on. He promised to get us out of all these wars. He stated he wanted to make lobbying illegal for x years after leaving government. He promised to drain the swamp. These are not bad ideas and it allowed him to capture at least some of the electorate who were aching for change and willing to throw a bomb into the system. Some even looked past his racism. And of course, the racists love him. I’m not saying he’s some great stratagist, but he did have messages, some good, and he also knew how to inundate the 24/7 news cycle and keep the coverage on him. I don’t recall HRC talking about much more than look how deplorable he and his supporters are. That is not a good campaign strategy
In a way the blame for the arrogance and hubris of the entire Democratic establishment and the entire Clinton campaign gets dumped at the feet of Hillary, but that’s also a very easy case to make because she’s such an arrogant, narcissistic individual. Those qualities are why she rises above Gore and Kerry as bad candidates. The same thing with poor political instincts and the lack of coherent messaging; while those problems permeated the campaign, they were also embodied by Clinton herself.
I think you would struggle to name a single thing during the entire campaign, whether from the campaign apparatus or Clinton herself, which rose above the level of merely competent, and I can think of an awful lot of things which did not rise to that level.
I basically agree with this, except for the part about what her messaging play was supposed to be? Like of course she’s a democrat so it’s going to be stronger together argle-bargle nonsense, but what should she have ran on that she didn’t?
I have a poor opinion of her, but I don’t think she’s definitely worse than those two. She’s not better, though.
A competent, experienced manager who appeals to centrists is not a good presidential candidate.
I think her best moments were indeed highlighting stable’s unfitness for office, so I do struggle to name a single thing during the entire campaign that made me want her to win for any reason except to stave off catastrophe. Maybe she said some good stuff about immigration or building on obamacare but I don’t remember it. But as I said to Cactus, what could her message have been, given who she was, and given how she was positioned after the primary? I’m only slightly making the case that she’s not that much worse than Gore/Kerry, that treating her as the lol worst ever obscures important things about what the vibrant young man did successfully.
I guess we’re gonna test this proposition again, because bleeding eye Joe is +10 against stable in NH and my gal Liz is -2.