Just to let you know since you quoted a nunnehi post, he won’t be responding here anymore. He told me via PM that he’s done with this site, and he asked me to let everyone know that if anyone asked, it was because of me. (Due to our exchange in this thread the other day.)
Since you tried to reply to him, I’ll fulfill nunnehi’s wishes.
Thats to bad i liked nunnehi even if he was a little pie in the sky. This place needs a few optimist.
All that Hillary hate and it wasn’t even mentioned that she was a bad Senator and a terrible Secretary of State.
If only the Russians didn’t change all those votes in the swing states that Hillary didn’t visit she might have won.
Medicare for all
Free college
15 dollar minimum wage (I think she eventually came around to this after first being for like, 11 dollars)
Basically like any platforms. I honestly have no idea what policies she wanted to implement. I can rattle off what Obama ran on, even though he failed at most of it. I can’t tell you a single thing she was promising to do as president. Can you?
I supported Hillary in the primary. I showed up to vote for her when the polls opened on election day. I did this despite thinking she couldn’t lose. I didn’t believe my eyes until pitifully late on election day. I donated a significant amount of money, and bet a similar amount of money on her winning.
The cognitive dissonance that followed was some of the most extreme shit I’ve ever dealt with. It was up there with my worst break even stretch when I played poker, and the confusion I felt when my dad died and his reality distortion field came down. And then Trump kept tweeting and rubbed salt in the wound on a daily basis.
I’ve been forced to really think about what happened in the aftermath. I think a lot of you have lied to yourselves as an alternative to the admittedly gruesome process I had to go through.
Losing to DJT was quantifiably different than losing the W. W was a much better political candidate than Donald Trump and Karl Rove was pretty good at his job. That’s not trying to excuse Gore and Kerry who were both pretty weak candidates given that there are 300+ million people in this country the majority of whom are Democrats. They both got to where they were at least somewhat nepotistically and it showed. But none of that remotely compared to the HRC campaign.
I won’t pretend like I thought she was a good candidate during the campaign. I thought she was pretty trash and was actually grateful that Trump was her opponent. I thought we’d dodged a bullet by having a clown for an opponent instead of Kasich/Rubio or even Jeb!
I didn’t realize that she was the bullet and we were already badly hit. In retrospect I’m sort of glad that the first woman president didn’t get there because she married the right man. All of the liberal mythology around HRC being some kind of spectacular wonk talent was just that. In reality she’s a vapid social climber with no particular talent. Instead of feeling any shame for hurling this country into the abyss through her own incompetence she cashed a book deal (where the responsibility she takes for what happened is skin deep, it’s mostly about passing the blame to others from the reviews I read) and has the nerve to appear in public.
A lot of you object to what I said because you’d object to my saying that about anyone. I think that’s more than a little cowardly. Politics isn’t a game. Millions of people are going to die because Hillary Clinton felt she was entitled to the Presidency. She was thinking about her legacy during the campaign far more than she was thinking about making absolutely sure that she won. She knew the Russians were meddling and still didn’t take the possibility that Trump could win seriously. She knew that the email thing was being used to smear her and she let it hang around rather than doing what needed to be done to settle it and make it go away (to be clear the error was running for president while this was hanging over her… she should have figured out what it would take to settle and done that or not run at all).
Honestly I can’t think of a single thing she did that was tactically or strategically correct in the entire race. I dare any of you to name something she did right.
Since her loss I’ve seen something interesting. I’ve seen politicians who are actually good at their jobs. AOC is goddamn great at being a politician. Elizabeth Warren is goddamn great at running for president and being a politician. There are quite a few more people on our side who are more than just narcissists begging big donors for money so that they can purchase an unearned megaphone to broadcast bullshit.
I’m no longer OK with those politicians. My expectations are now extremely high. My expectations can be met, which is why they are now minimum requirements. This country has 300+M people in it. The people who represent us should be exceptional. Not just in the schools they attended because of privilege but in their actual ability. Nothing less will ever be OK for me ever again. Mostly because Hillary lost to Trump and that’s a lesson I won’t be forgetting.
Hillary did warn us though. She flat out said Trump was a puppet for Russia.
The problem was nothing was gonna beat a 25 year smear campaign against her. I mean shit, remember “Impeach Clinton. And her husband.”
The GOP has always known Hil would be the Dem nominee one day and they have acted accordingly. I think one of the reasons Obama won in 2008 is because the GOP was caught off guard. By the time Obama became the nominee, it was already an avalanche and they got crushed.
That gave the GOP an additional 8 years to get ready. Hillary’s biggest mistake was not having a plan to fight that.
She wrote a fucking book about policy. She ran on aggressively expanding the ACA, something that actually had a shot of happening rather than this bs you guys are all on that has 0.0000000000000000% chance of happening in our lifetimes.
Pretty sure she ran on raising minimum wage significantly.
I know for certain she campaigned on making college completely debt-free for everyone, expanding aid significantly, and making community colleges free. Again, things that had a shot of happening and is effectively what everyone wants. Furthermore, she had an aggressive and detailed plan about tackling the student debt crisis.
You guys talking about “hIlLaRy dIdnT hAvE a MeSsAgE” didnt learn your lesson in 2016. She did, but that isnt why she lost.
What she ran on and having a coherent message are different things. Look it’s obvious you’ve made up your mind on this. So have I. She had a massive grab bag of ideas that her advisors told her polled well… and zero shot of getting any of it done if elected. It was painfully obvious to everyone that what she was ‘for’ would instantly change to whatever the polls told her it should, and nobody (not even me and I donated money and voted) thought she was actually serious about any of it. She was perceived as the status quo candidate to end all status quo candidates.
Beating her over the head with her status quo status is how Obama beat her in the '08 primary hilariously. She did exactly nothing to fix that for 2016 except do everything in her power to monopolize the Democratic field, which led directly to Bernie Sanders giving her a competitive primary anyway.
How do you guarantee college is debt free without making it free? This isn’t a gotcha, it’s something that I remember hearing her say and it sounds like bs but I don’t know the details of her plan.
These may have been bullet points on the “issues” page of her website, but this wasn’t the message of the campaign at all.
She lost the popular vote by 1.5 million in the 49 states that aren‘t California.
Bernie lost to Clinton. What does that make him? He even had the same type of troll support Trump did. Mueller even proved the point about Russian interference.
Clinton wasn’t the worst candidate. You all are just bad posters. You’ve parroted all the talking points from Chapo and other loathesome sources.
I think Bernie is a terrible candidate as well lol.
You have a bad track record as is my man. You raged about Obama on 2p2.
I think he made bad political choices for the Democratic Party when he led it. To be fair he had a country to run and was hyper focused on that.
You’re not really well positioned to talk about bad takes either sir.
I made those posts while I was processing an absolutely incredible amount of cognitive dissonance in the direct aftermath of HRC losing. I’ve had time to really stew in that pain and learn what I needed to learn since.
People tend to want to pretend that what they don’t like about history didn’t happen. They want to tell themselves that they are 100% in the right, that god is on their side, and that they can do the exact same thing and next time will be different. I think that’s something you have to actively fight back against by really carefully examining every mistake you make as a person.
I’ve made lots of mistakes in my life and I’ve failed a lot as well. I’m not afraid of making new mistakes or looking stupid anymore. I’m afraid of feeling smart and making the same mistakes over and over again. I never want to repeat another of my past mistakes ever again. Putting anyone, even Obama, on a pedestal and pretending that he did everything perfectly is a great example of the type of thinking I’m talking about. He’s a great man, but he’s flawed just like the rest of us, and made numerous mistakes that will cost the country dearly over time. It’s basically impossible to be president and have that not be true. That’s why the job ages people like 30 years in 8 years or less.
If recognizing those mistakes and learning from them makes me disloyal I’ll be disloyal. Loyalty is massively overrated as a concept anyway. Usually real loyalty = leverage in my experience.
Are you comparing the primaries to the general election? You shouldn’t.
I am in the perfect position to talk about bad takes. I don’t care what you guys think about me personally. I can see where shit like catfacemeows (and others) takes come from before he posts. The fact him and other “lefties” refuse to renounce the shit stirring type behavior Bernie Bros are known for when Bernie has said cut it out (like some of the insidious Warren stuff in 2020 thread). The real left always died because of the threat of telling the truth, not being propagandist.
Your problem with Obama is on 2p2 you didn’t see personal gains despite others (gay and POC). And you still seem to be on the “I need mine” kick when you talk about your industry.
You talk about loyalty which is odd. I feel no connection to dumb motherfuckers who say they can’t vote for Biden over Trump. Which there’s at least one of those here.
Spare me. If Clinton was the WOAT, Bernie would’ve won the primary.
EDIT: Kerry and Gore are obviously worse than her.
There is your problem right there. You think the better candidate will win the primary.