Like, I’m sorry, but I just can’t buy the argument that we should have just let them have Kavanaugh because it wasn’t worth the fight since it might rile them up and we should just let Trump get away with all of it without impeaching him because it isn’t worth the fight because it might rile them up.
Like you think they’re going to be like, “Aw, shoot, they didn’t fight us on this and just let us have a SCOTUS justice and a rampantly corrupt president. I was really hoping they’d fight us.”
Rolling over and dying because we’re afraid of each of these fights seems like a great way to let them get a lot done when they’re in charge. Meanwhile, you better goddamn believe that a (lord willing) President Warren is going to be ripped to shreds based on her attire, condiment choices, salute etiquette, and Oval Office foot placement. And it’s going to dominate the conversation and derail policy in some cases.
Your last few posts are some of the most disheartening posts I’ve ever read about politics, suzzer, because if you’re on the side of letting this stuff slide and tripling down on 2020 alone, then I think we’re truly all really really really really fucked, because we really need people way right of you and way less up for the fight than you to be with us and ready to fight.
I mean, shit, do you really think 2020 is going to be a remotely fair or free election?
This is an excellent point about Warren potentially triggering a surprising surge of support. I think the DNC is missing that point. Biden does very well with the people who already love him, but he doesn’t inspire people like Bernie or Warren. He’s like HRC in that yeah people will vote for him, but outside of Biden’s base–which is not the same as the DNC base or Warren’s base, as much as we wish they were on election day–no one will be excited about voting for him.
Last thing on this. I could be totally wrong in my assumptions. I have no idea how impeachment would turn out - which is my whole point.
What I’m saying is I trust Pelosi is doing what she thinks makes the most sense from a strategy POV. I don’t think she’s dumb, or scared. And to be honest it’s a little ludicrous to imply that she is. I know that’s what we do here and all. But just get real for a second. She’s pretty fucking shrewd and ruthless when she wants to be.
Again - when your enemy clearly wants you to do something - you should think very long and hard before proceeding.
I think it’s very possible they did some internal polling that really scared them off of another Kavanaugh. If anything she’s showing a lot of guts to stand up to all the calls for impeachment - which could be the easy feel good thing to do in the moment, but ultimately a disaster.
Like the RNC - the DNC exists for their members’ survival and corporate overlords. They’re deliberately missing the point. They dislike Warren like the RNC hated Trump.
Warren and Bernie are far more likely to register new voters, which is huge in a hyper-polarized environment where it’s all about expanding the base and turning out voters. Nobody who hasn’t voted in the past is registering to vote for Joe.
My sister has always been a staunch supporter of Pelosi. Her ex husband was involved in the Gore campaign back in 2000. She told me earlier today that Nancy needs to go. She’s fed up with her inaction. I was actually surprised because my sister is the typical centrist that Pelosi caters to.
Do you really think impeachment is going to accomplish anything other than satiating the rightfully angry left for a while and creating a gigantic spectacle of the kind Trump seems to usually come out ahead?
There is a TON of emotion on this that I think is getting in the way of realistically assessing outcomes.
Do you or do you not agree that Trump is practically begging for impeachment? If so - why do you think that is? Do you think he’s delusional about whether or not it will ultimately help him?
Yes, it draws a line in the sand and says, “This is not okay.” It attempts to halt the decay of democratic norms, or at least show some resistance. It’s what is supposed to happen to protect the rule of law. I’d rather lose a fight than cede the rule of law with a whimper.
It’s also going to change public perceptions. Look at Nixon’s approval rating before the hearings started and after. It’s not like we vote to impeach tomorrow, there will be months of hearings - and we obviously need less grandstanding and more lawyers asking questions, but if done even remotely well, they will start to get the attention of Americans who don’t pay much attention to the news.
I don’t agree. I think he’s partially bluffing and partially acting with the reckless disregard of someone who doesn’t think the Dems are ever going to do anything. He also knows he’s not going to be convicted in the Senate.
Also, keep in mind that the people that got riled up over Kavanaugh and would get riled up over this are going to get riled up anyway. They’re his base, they’re like 35-40% of the country, and they believe whatever Trump and the GOP tell them. If they weren’t riled up about Kavanaugh, they would have just been riled up about the caravans of the invading brown menace coming to impose Sharia law on them while stealing those sweet free government handouts.
It’s the same in 2020. If we impeach, they’ll be riled up over impeachment. If not, they’ll be riled up because the socialist Democrats are coming to kill them in the streets after they take away their guns and make them all bow down to Allah and give up their cheeseburgers, straws, cars, and airplanes to save the environment from the Chinese hoax of climate change.
We have to stop making decisions based on how the right will react.
Pelosi’s job is secure no matter what she does. I don’t think she’s holding back on impeachment for personal reasons. If anything not impeaching seems to be a gigantic liability for her.
As of the last week or so not impeaching has become a liability for her, and whaddayaknow, she’s starting to signal that she might shift. Previously in my opinion, she believed she had more security in her personal power without impeaching.
The whole if you swing at the king you better not miss thing does actually carry some weight. You want to keep swinging to send a message and make noise - despite a very likely miss. And swing again and again. Well maybe at some point throw dirt in their eyes and kick them in the nuts makes more sense.
Maybe I dunno. I’d love to be wrong.
But again I know arm-chair QBing is what we do here, and that’s fine. But every now and then I just take a reality check that we know almost nothing compared to what they do and we can really only judge results - in aggregate - long after the fact. Judging stuff like this in the moment is about as accurate as immediate draft grades imo.
If Pelosi was impeaching I’d assume that’s the right move. Since she’s not in the face of enormous pressure, I tend to wonder if there’s a good reason for it.
Not sure Trump is begging for impeachment, but to the extent he is it’s because he knows that his opponents in D leadership are weak, self-absorbed swamp creatures who lost whatever fire, fight and passion they had decades ago. The kind of person who knows that they have that sweet lobbying money to fall back on for decades of serving corporate interests, you know the money that Pelosi’s handpicked future of House leadership, Joseph Crowley, took. Also known as the man who got knocked out by a bartender w/ a flyswatter in her hand.
And that is where you miss the point, Trump is taking the sledgehammer to this country regardless, the question is which of our leaders is willing to stand up to him at PERSONAL risk of him directing the awesome powers of the Presidency at them. Agreed it takes bravery to do so, he will do awful shit like accusing you of celebrating 9/11 and pressure foreign leaders to prevent you from visiting your grandmother abroad. And he’s just getting started.
Not a task for the weak. But if you are not up it, then vacate your seat and get the fuck out of the way.
I mean that’s all well and good, and I am all for a cooler head to think things through, but can you offer a few examples of secrets (from the public) they could possibly know that warrant not impeaching him? Maybe I’m just ignorant, but I’m struggling.
What is the real life equivalent of throwing dirt in their eyes and kicking them in the nuts?
Like, right now, we’re not swinging. We’re setting a precedent that Republican presidents are not impeachable as long as the Republican party says they’re not. It’s time to say fuck the politics and let’s just do the right thing and if we lose, we lose.
See, I think questioning the strategy and motives of milquetoast establishment Dems is a pretty sound strategy. I mean, we’ve basically watched them establish that subpoenas don’t matter by following up every ignored subpoena with a strongly worded letter and shit else. And you know what? It’s not working.
I think he wants to act like a tough guy and make the other side look weak when they back down. He is a bully and Democrats need to stand up to him and punch him in the nose, figuratively or literally.
Dems are looking at Watergate as the model for impeachment. They should be looking at Benghazi, with excessive hearings designed more to drive up his negatives than to accomplish anything meaningful.