Ugh I almost responded to this jackwad. I have the abortion thread muted for a reason can y’all take it there?
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I’m fine with keeping the discussion here unless/until a moderator says otherwise.
(As an aside, I’ll be away from UP until at least Wednesday. Looking forward to continuing this discussion at that time.)
Texas does not criminalize inducing one’s own abortion. It criminalizes giving someone pills or performing a procedure. That hasn’t stopped them from bringing charges against women who do, however!
South Carolina does criminalize managing one’s own abortion, and they’re happy to arrest women who did so when it was still legal:
But women going to jail for having a miscarriage is not even new to the post-Dobbs world:
From 1973-2020, NAPW has recorded 1,600 such cases, with about 1,200 occurring in the last 15 years alone.
The investigation into the teen — and the mother who ordered abortion pills for her daughter — began in April 2022 after someone tipped off police about a stillbirth and disposal of the fetus. Police sent a warrant to Meta, the company that owns Facebook, requesting messages between the mother and the daughter about ending the teen’s pregnancy. Meta complied with the request and provided the police with the messages.
A mere stillbirth was sufficient probable cause for a warrant into the whole lives of these two women.
No, you don’t. You most certainly don’t vote for politicians with policies that help anyone. Saying you’re cool with it and then voting against it in every election means, at the very least, you don’t give a shit about pregnant women, only the clumps of cells that may or may not turn out to be people.
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You didn’t answer my question and I’d really like to pin ya down on it.
If you think the default should be that abortions are federally legal, then what’s the difference to you if a woman can’t get an abortion in one state, but can, a couple hundred miles away in another? Why not just leave it up to the women and their doctor to make that decision instead of state legislators?
Once again, this is your opinion (which you’re entitled to have), but it doesn’t make something true. In fact, your opinion here is very clearly wrong, since an abortion can sometimes be lifesaving healthcare for the mother. That isn’t even debatable
That’s kind of results oriented on your part. What difference does it make?
Let me guess, you’re one of those Todd Akin types. As you may recall, he’s the one with the scorching take that “If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down.” Crazy that he could probably get elected despite saying that now.
No, that is not my premise. I believe that a baby has a right to live. But I don’t believe that a baby has full inalienable human rights. For example, while I believe a baby has a right to life, I do not believe that a baby have the rights of “liberty and the pursuit of happiness.”, given that such rights are not within the ken of a baby’s capacity to exercise.
The mother also has a right to life, which is why even states that what Planned Parenthood designate as having “a total ban on abortion” allow for exceptions in situations in which the mother’s life is endangered owing to her pregnancy.
They don’t allow those exceptionss in practice! They don’t allow treatment even in the middle of a miscarriage!
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He’s not going to read that.
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Well, according to the above study, he will, and will then double down on why he is right.
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Thanks for sharing the opinion piece, MrWookie.
Not sure what to make of it since as far as I could tell there is nothing factually verifiable anywhere in the article (What hospital? Who were the ER doctors? Is there a medical report that can be shared?)*
Having said that, it would seem that the Texas law is apparently poorly written and fails to take into the account the health and well-being of the mother.**
*Which I suspect is why the article is in the “My Turn” section of Newsweek.
**Full Disclosure: I haven’t read the law, and I probably wouldn’t understand it even if I did read it.
Eye witness testimonials from named sources are not “opinion pieces.” Furthermore, we know for a fact that this woman’s suffering is the intended outcome of the Texas law:
A federal appeals court ruled that emergency rooms in Texas aren’t required to perform life-saving care, including abortions.
The state of Texas was the plaintiff in that case arguing that their law should supercede EMTALA.
So, no, you are once again dead wrong. This wasn’t a case of “poor wording,” unless you mean that the wording of the law that gives a fig leaf of regard for the lives of women should be struck from the law, because that text isn’t honored in practice. This kind of suffering happening to women, even ones trying to give birth to healthy babies, is exactly the intent of your pro-life side.
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Sucks that a movement that has been planning to ban abortion for over 60 years couldn’t get the wording right on a law and whose effect happens to nearly ban all abortions. Oh well hope they do better next time.
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Kinda like how putting up a rainbow flag is saying “I’M A PERVERT”?
Sorry I ignored/missed your question.
My answer is that all manner of wickedness and perversion is becoming more and more not just tolerated, but celebrated. Some states are more inclined than others to take a stand against wickedness, so it makes sense (in my opinion) to approach abortion on a state-by-state basis unless/until there is a national consensus that make make a federal law more feasible.
See, now here is a rare thing. You posted something I think you genuinely believe. Congrats on your hate.
And yes, I mean hate, because you don’t get to hide behind “I love them so much I want them to just not be gay anymore!” bullshit. This is your position:
Conversion therapy can cause significant, long-term psychological harm.[2] This includes significantly higher rates of depression, substance abuse, and other mental health issues in individuals who have undergone conversion therapy than their peers who did not,[78][79] including a suicide attempt rate nearly twice that of those who did not.[80]
You support driving LGBTQ+ individuals to suicide. I don’t care if you feel like you don’t. That is literally what you are supporting.
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Having a real normal one over here
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I think in order to have a productive conversation it helps to use terms accepted by everyone. “Wicked” is a subjective term and therefore meaningless. You might consider removing a blastocyst consisting of no more cells than the brian of a fly as being wicked, but others might not. Especially if it endangers the life of the mother
Also, there already IS national consensus that women should have the right to bodily autonomy (see the 2022 election results). What you want is for government to become involved in regulating over a women’s body
You wanted an example of you being bigoted? Here ya go
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I never asked you for an example of me posting something bigoted. I asked you for an example of me posting something racist.