I’m legitimately glad I wasn’t born rich and will never have to worry about being rich or trying to raise rich kids to be decent humans.
I’m glad I had to work for a living. But also I realize that’s easy for me to say given I like what I do. But I did also work a million shit jobs in my youth to make me appreciate the job I have now.
I agree with this. I just don’t think working at a fast food place fills the majority of people with purpose.
Yeah it’s 100% pathological. Just like royalty, a lot of the rich tell themselves that none of this is possible w/o them, and their life is simply worth some huge multiple of a normal person’s.
I can’t imagine how boring it would be to be ensconced in that world where the only people you ever interact with are other rich people or servants.
But the underlying argument is the same. If people are not hungry enough to work they won’t.
It interesting because your solutions are more pro job market.
As a society we have blurred the lines of purpose and what you do to add value to GDP. I would suggest they are not the same and to the extent they are is the result of really good propaganda.
I waited tables and got purpose out of it. It felt good on a primal level to feed people and watch them go away happy.
I never did fast food but I did plenty of other shit jobs that I always found some way to take pride in. Although I’m sure that would have worn off eventually.
Yeah - I think a lot of people, myself especially, need a kick in the pants to get moving sometimes. But ultimately we’re better off for it.
I know I wasn’t self-actualized enough in my 20s to go out and find a job if I didn’t have to. And I would have just gotten fat(ter) and miserable.
I can handle it now in my 50s, but still just barely.
The purpose part to me is about working to feed yourself, or support your family. It’s a primal thing that most people need to feel imo. To me the alternative is Wall-E where you never have to lift a finger for anything.
Then again, first-world people do engage lots of unnecessary exercise to make up for what we’re missing in our jobs. So maybe we would fill in all those blanks.
But seriously - why not just take all those productivity gains and start shortening the work week? Why have a world where some people work zero hours (and don’t have much spending money) while others work 40 or more and have all the spending money but no time? How about a world, at least at first, where everyone gets a 3-day weekend all the time?
It seems like the Democrat corporate donor class/MSM hegemony is fine with talk about UBI because they’re pretty sure it’s just a pipe dream. But talk about shortening the work-week is dangerous and must be squashed.
I feel like that’s a better start than just jumping straight to UBI - which would be like putting everyone on the equivalent of current unemployment or disability - where they can get by w/o a job but they probably have to move back with their parents or something.
I realize we’re well off topic but I think these are good points and would support both a shortened work week and some sort of UBI program, but I disagree that “losing purpose” needs to be a primary concern when considering these programs. To be clear, I 100% agree that some people would lose their purpose without some sort of “project” to work on, and many people find that outlet in their employment. I think the net result of a policy like that, though, would be that more people eliminate stress or find a “better” purpose than those who lose their purpose entirely and fall apart, so it’s still a net positive. I think I’m one of the people like you who needs something engaging to remain relatively sane, and I think it might take some work to find that thing if I won the lottery tomorrow, but I still think it’s doable. It’s just a different kind of stress.
Yeah, I think this is correct. A UBI gives someone the freedom to leave some bullshit job they need to make rent and actually find something they like doing.
Also taking away that leverage would certainly have bosses treat people decently. You really only get away with treating people like shit if they need that job to survive
I definitely don’t think everyone would stop working if they got ubi. They would want extra money still for nicer car/clothes/housing.
This isnt an “all other things being equal” situation.
Those people who struggle with nothing to do will be surrounded by others who are loving it and creating social value.
The dude sat at home unemployed has no where to go and nothing to do. Under some UBI you get to go hang out with your buddy who just started a week day time flag football league.
Really, it’s a recent development that we have become wealthy enough as a society such that regular people actually have time to consider what their life’s purpose is. For most of human history the overwhelming amount of people were too preoccupied with day-to-day survival to worry about abstract, existential questions like what is my life’s purpose?
From what I’ve read, during tribal times most people only spent like 20 hours of hunting and gathering and the rest was leisure
I wonder what passed for leisure back then?
Shitposting, what else do you think all those cave paintings were about?
per day?
The first memes.
A week lol. Although I’m sure it varied a lot depending on where your tribe was. But if you lived near where you could fish I’m sure it was cake
I was partially joking but yeah. It depended on if they had learned to preserve meat or if they could find animals to kill for some. Many tribes followed the buffalo of course but I imagine it wasn’t all fun & games.
20 hours a week? Man, that seems unlikely as an average, But I don’t really know much about it. I’d be interested to read any sources you’ve got on the subject.