It’s like your heart isn’t in it anymore.
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oh right, it’s only somewhat of a proxy war, kind of leaning towards a war war, probably will get there soon enough
Seems a bit odd that so much falls onto the labeling like invoking the word proxy war makes it categorically bad, but I guess if it’s not a proxy war that’s not so bad, or maybe it is. I don’t know.
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Proxy wars are good. I’d be happier if we’d fought proxy wars in the Middle East instead of war wars. It’s a shame that we killed off the most viable proxy, Saddam Hussein.
I also don’t understand why people vehemently object to it being described as a proxy war. But it seems like if you’re giving a country eight times their annual defense budget to fight an invasion you’re engaging in a proxy war. If that’s not a proxy war what the hell is?
It seems like proxy wars for good reasons are good and proxy wars for bad reasons are bad so labeling something a proxy war doesn’t really get anyone anywhere. Usually America does bad things for bad reasons so it’s not like it’s a bad barometer to say if America is doing it, it’s bad; but it doesn’t have to be that way.
They feel that your usage of “proxy war” suggests the US instigated the war. This is more like the US took Putin’s war and turned it into a proxy war.
Proxy war in no way suggests who instigated the war. But did powerful guys on you guys’ side like Lindsey Graham, John McCain, Vicky Neuland, Dick Cheney, and the rest of the neocons want this proxy war? I think so, they all went from six to midnight as soon as it broke out.
Seems possible, though kind of an issue of measurement. Estonia has given more of its GDP to Ukraine than the US. Is Estonia in a proxy war with Russia. I would say yes. What does that tell us about Estonia?
Who’s Russia’s proxy in this “proxy” war? Is Ukraine fighting Russia for the USA?
I think you have to look at it in terms of percent contribution to the war effort. Sure, Estonia has given more of its GDP than the US maybe, but what’s the relative value of the US and Estonian contributions to the Ukrainian war effort?
I think most people wouldn’t object to calling the US’s support of Afghanistan as a proxy war against the Soviets or the Soviets’ support of North Vietnam a proxy war against USA#1. If you want to say none of those and also Ukraine aren’t proxy wars, and by god BOTH sides need to be fighting through a proxy in order to have it be a True Proxy War, uh, ok, who cares. What’s the importance of this distinction exactly?
I see Keeed has found a new place to Keeed. If we used the definition of proxy war that he’s using, lending support to anyone is a proxy war, which makes the definition useless. People get mad at calling it a proxy war because, historically, the terms proxy war means “a war instigated by a major power which does not itself become involved.” It also requires a “direct, long-term relationship between external actors and the belligerents involved.”
That is not what is happening to Ukraine. Only idiots like Mearsheimer think that NATO instigated this war. Material and aid came after the invasion in response to the disaster.
Using the term “proxy war” is a not-so-subtle attempt to twist language by trolls to ‘well ackshully’ the USA and West’s involvement in Ukraine. It’s should be rebuked and when the inevitable refusal to accept reality comes, it should be ignored.
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Ok, fine, proxy war. Now what?
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John McCain is still dead, and if Lindsey Graham and Dick Cheney put on their pants one leg at a time, I am not going to find some new way to do it. What an incredibly stupid, and, dare I say, proxy argument. It doesn’t matter what Dick Cheney thinks. We can ask ourselves if the Russians, who have threatened genocide and have committed acts to that end already, should be met by force from the Ukrainians or if the only moral response to genocide is to lay back and enjoy it. We can ask ourselves if it is OK to offer support to them to that end. We can ask ourselves if Never Again actually means Whenever Again, or maybe Whenever Again As Long As They Have Nukes.
Bandying about scare terms and big numbers serves only to distract from the central questions.
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Thought Keed was done simping for Glenn but here we are.
Slow news day
Not much, really? I was kind of flabbergasted that anyone would dispute that it’s a US-Russia proxy war. The US is spending 40 billion dollars and has already spent 14 billion according to Greenwald (no idea if that’s accurate but sounds plausible). $54 billion is a lot to give Ukraine! For another comparison, Russia’s annual defense spending is something like 60 billion dollars. So yeah, it’s a proxy war!
Other than that, you guys all seem to think that a proxy war with Russia is a good thing. I hope you’re right, but I think we’re in a situation where the Russian leadership probably thinks this is a war they have to win. What happens if they lose? I don’t know. Like, what happens if US-backed Ukrainian forces push back Ukraine and cross into Crimea? Would Russia escalate? I don’t know. Is any of this likely? I’d say it’s more likely not to happen than to happen, but these sorts of scenarios don’t strike me as terribly unlikely. And some of them could lead to catastrophic outcomes for the world.
For the first time since WWII there is a very clear good guy and bad guy, and America is doing the right thing. So of course it drives America-hating knee-jerk contrarians out of their minds (and shills who make millions off being an America-hating contrarian like GG).
$40B is a rounding error. Just come out and say you don’t give a shit of Ukraine undergoes another Holodomor under Putin. At least be honest about it. Because something similarly awful will happen if Putin wins. Look at what’s happening in the occupied territories now, and multiply it by 10.
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