Now I’m completely confused. We all agree nothing is happening right away, yet we’re dragging Liz for saying she’s going to pass two bills by the midterms, while praising Bernie for just saying M4A or Bust over and over?
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I can’t find a link offhand but Bernie changed to Liz’s “it’ll be done over time” process on healthcare and nobody here noticed and still attack Liz over it.
Also in more good news for bloomberg, it was only the most watched debate so far with 20 million people. Criminal Minds did not save him like I thought it might.
Yes, even if the Obama “realist view” of the world is correct, you fight, fight, fight, and make it patently clear who us standing in the way (Joe Manchin types filling the pockets of their family, friends and donors) and then play your hand accordingly. Don’t give up the fight two years before it even happens and let the villains off the hook scot free.
My mom had the same shitty take that she’s unhinged so I pointed out that she loves when Trump does it. You see that’s because Trump is strong and Liz is too intense and serious!
So whom do you see as giving up in this scenario?
Yeah for sure there are a lot of boomer women who seem to have the same take.
I see Liz kicking the can down the road and allowing Dirty D villians to bid their time as giving up.
A stupid idea she got from her idiotic campaign advisors who believe a moderate is someone who is mildly racist and wants moderately shitty healthcare.
There has always been a transition period in Bernie’s plan. He does it in one bill that’s voted on in year one and phases in over (I think) 4 years.
Liz does it in two bills, with the second one voted on in year three. That is unrealistic and will never in a million years happen, and also relies on keeping her hypothetical majority after her first midterm, meaning we’d be stuck with the stuff in her year one bill - which is basically ButtiCare
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You know the only realistic way you get Medicare for All in year 3? By beating the drums for it the next four years, and defeating the villians who forced you to compromise to public option in year 1.
I’m dragging her for starting from the compromise position, which means we’ll get a doubly compromised result that’ll be minor patches to the ACA and no public option.
There are two ways to speak on this: one is to go down the whole “what is actually possible?” realist road, and if you’re going to take that one you damn well better be realistic. You can’t take that road and say you’re going to pass healthcare reform twice in three years, including right after a midterm that’s probably going to give the House/Senate to the GOP.
The other way is to speak about what you believe in and what you will fight for, and that’s what Bernie is doing.
His position is to pass one bill that gets it done by a phase-in process over four years. He’s not bullshitting about passing multiple bills.
So, “I can’t be bothered to find out wtf I’m talking about but that’s why you’re all hypocrites” is what you’ve got to say? Cool story bro
There is no world in which we are able to pass a public option but not m4a.
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There is and it’s a world where you don’t have the votes for M4A in the Democratic Party.
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Wait. Why exactly is #1 realistic and #2 isn’t?
I really feel like some of you are splitting hairs on this stuff.
And somehow bucking the recent trend of the POTUS getting absolutely destroyed in the midterms. Nothing wrong with hoping for that. But expecting it to happen seems unrealistic imo.
I think the argument is that you either have 60 Democrats or you don’t. I say: “Lol at 60 Democrats supporting M4A”.
Fine. Then threaten to support a primary challenger for every single house member/senator who refuses to get on board, and follow through with it.
Honestly if we can’t do this then the party needs to be burned down and rebuilt from scratch. The answer isn’t to pass shittier laws, when there are plenty of qualified people out there who will vote for the good ones.
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I’m still not buying this “One candidate is righteous and good for insisting on the thing we all know is a long shot” while “the other candidate is to be reviled for proposing a slightly different yet almost as ambitious model which also probably will not happen given the current trend of POTUS getting destroyed in the midterms”.
Seriously. Let’s just all get along here - we’re 98% on the same side.
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I was going to respond to this, but your next post pretty much summed it up. Also think about the Obamacare rollout. It sucked and it was bumpy. Now imagine holding a vote to expand healthcare even more while we’re in the midst of that bumpy rollout and after we just had a contentious healthcare debate/vote last term. It’s just completely unrealistic to have that as your plan.
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I agree with that right now. But I think beating the drum for M4A will get us there eventually. When the Boomers die.
What I take huge issue with is the idea that Liz’s public option is somehow a radical departure from M4A that’s torpedoing the long term mission. Or two bills vs. one bill - which I still cannot fathom why that is some kind of big deal.