There’s a difference between “both of these candidates are unequivocally bad, and I refuse to vote for either” and “both of these candidates are equally bad”.
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Like I said. You are not a serious person.
Man, I wish people were saying “both of these candidates are unequivocally bad, and I refuse to vote for either.” What we have here are like a dozen guys committed to kneecapping Biden on this issue and when I ask how that’s supposed to help I get zero-content troll posts and memes. If anyone wants to map out how staying home is the lesser of three evils, I’m willing to listen.
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Man, ‘serious’ discourse making a comeback, I guess it’s been a little over three years.
What kinda hurts this argument is that all this unequivocally bad and evil stuff was said about all the non-rapey candidates that were to the left of Biden as well.
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“Don’t vote” isn’t a plan; it’s a moral choice. This choice comes from a belief that the right action is not based on the consequences, so your continual stressing what will happen if they don’t vote against Trump is thoroughly unconvincing to people whose minds you are trying to change.
Let’s say that Trump has installed himself as dictator-for-life and the only way to remove him is via assassination. How would you convince a pacifist to participate in your plan? Would you continue to hammer them for sticking to their impractical no-killing plan or would you find a way to do things without them?
For the most part we get it. There’s going to be two real choices in November and, while neither of them are going to be good, one is clearly worse than the other. But everything else in your post, the:
That’s all coming either way, unless some major changes happen soon.
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I told you already that it’s not supposed to help or hurt, this is a message board and nothing said here will ever matter. On four, the place was like 90% in the tank for Clinton; Clinton lost. This place had to’ve been something like 75% for Sanders; Sanders lost. This place doesn’t matter.
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Yea man the forum’s only gone through like 5 massive shifts in ideology but nothing anyone posts matters.
OMG a couple of dozen people changed their minds on a couple of dozen policies. We wield the Lathe of Heaven and all must fear us.
This sort of nails my annoyance to be honest. The idea it’s moral to not vote for Trump’s opponent. It’s based on such a silly and juvenile idea of morality. One that belongs in a philosophy class and not the real world.
Real world morality decisions are always a choice. Purity is almost never a moral good. It’s sole purpose is to make one feel better about themselves. It’s so easy and glib to scream about how a choice among two evils is still a choice for evil but it ignores the patently obvious.
Less evil is better than more!
Political decisions, like macroeconomic ones, should be made based on the greatest good. Not how good it is for you or your small group but which choice generates the most overall good, globally.
That is moral.
Voting against Trump is the moral decision.
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Influencing a couple dozen people is pretty damn good! Are we supposed to be swinging the entire election?
Apparently so!
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I am sympathetic to the anti-Biden crowd but I think you are right about the futility of not voting. If not showing up moved the party left, the party would not have consolidated around Biden. Clinton got fewer votes than Obama, but it didn’t drive the eDems left. The only way to move the Dems left is by turning out in the primaries and winning. Not turning out on the general won’t have the desired end.
My vote is extraordinarily unlikely to be decisive. So my vote is a symbolic gesture and an expression in my faith in democracy. My refusal to vote is also a symbolic gesture when presented with two terrible candidates that I have no desire to support, symbolically or otherwise. And disillusioned voters are waiting for a candidate that actually speaks to the issues they care about and actually effect their lives. Joe Biden, uh, isn’t that guy. You want disillusioned voters to vote? Don’t nominate Joe Biden. Don’t nominate Donald Trump. Don’t nominate Hilldawg. It’s not hard. Just nominate someone who isn’t terrible and speaks to issues that the disillusioned voter actually cares about.
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Outcomes would be a lot better if voting was compulsory.
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You lost the nomination. Your side didn’t work hard enough. Now you want to hurt the world as punishment because you failed.
That is what is going on.
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lol
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For the record I’m not arguing that refusing to vote for gropey joe will make anything better. The world is fucked. Bernie was the last hope and a super thin hope even if he’d won. You’ve got maybe 15-20 years left before you drown.
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