Yo Yuv. Ma koreh?
This seems to be at the heart of the crisis of the left, imo.
There’s absolutely a problem with the elite ‘left’ who are far too implicated in the current economic status quo, but there is also a problem with some of the ‘traditional’ left being far too implicated in the white male dominated social hierarchy. In the UK and France (countries I know at least a bit about) we are seeing sections of white society who used to be part of the ‘left’ voting for scumbags with ‘nationalistic’ and racist ideologies because they identify with them, not despite of that. (And that certainly isn’t the sum total of non-progressive opinion on the left)
A breakthrough for a new, stable left coalition needs to solve both issues (at least). That sounds difficult, but so be it. It isn’t just about reconnecting with working class voters, it’s about changing some of their attitudes just as much as it’s about changing attitudes of neo-liberals about economics.
Sleep deprived and amused by the changes in the reign here.
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You’ll get used to the layout. It’s strictly better.
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Life comes at you fast
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Who is suggesting that CNN is doing the right thing? Fuck those guys.
Lay out your standard, man. Under what circumstances are we supposed to denounce people? How many degrees of separation from Nazis or war criminals are required before the sin is cleansed?
Like I said, if the point is simply “fuck Rogan” then IDGAF. If you’re requiring of Rogan-adjacent people that they perform some kind of penance, please refer to paragraph 1.
In Richmond CA
https://twitter.com/jackcalifano/status/1229536701992796163?s=21
In Tacoma WA
https://twitter.com/daberhasher/status/1229589913386881024?s=21
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Like, probably 95% or more of the people who are upset about the Rogan stuff are completely fine with CNN and would never think to question their preferred candidate accepting an endorsement from Chris Cuomo or whatever. Are you serious right now?
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So we should be civil to those who are civil with people who don’t deserve our civility but shouldn’t be civil with thouse who aren’t civil to those are civil with people who don’t deserve our civility.
I think I got it.
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If you’re regularly giving a platform to Nazi asssholes and smoking a joint and yukking it up with them, you’re doing it wrong. And yes, CNN is garbage.
Not just completely fine with it they literally watch CNN.(watching it is fine imo but playing the gotcha game with Rogan while watching CNN is not to be clear).
I don’t like Joe Rogan. I don’t like CNN. I don’t like it when Ellen hangs out with George Bush. I think all should be criticized.
But I do like and am willing to accept Joe’s endorsement of Bernie. Would I like it if Joe did all the same things but had an audience of 10k instead of 10mil, or if his audience wasn’t a bunch of ‘gettable’ voters? Probably a lot less. Would I like it if CNN endorsed Bernie? … probably?
Are the views I’ve laid out here contradictory? Maybe?
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It was lovely to wake up this morning and hear my podcast parents agree with my Trump > Bloom take. I wouldn’t have backed off that position under any circumstances, but it’s great to know I’m not alone.
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There’s something odd here, which is that your post is a complete rebuttal of hokie’s, but phrased as agreement. Hokie’s theory, to boil it down, is that civility-policing is a psychological tic borne of years of being automatically accepted as “the good guy.” Your theory is political - that it’s a cynical ploy by the establishment to maintain their grip on power against challenges from insurgents.
I tend to think the later is the right answer, which obviates the need to psychoanalyze people. The only question is whether it’s an effective tactic and how best to counter it. Perhaps that’s where the psychoanalysis comes in, but I sort of doubt that that’s going to be an effective appeal to the people who would otherwise be swayed by civility policing.
2 weeks from today it will be Super Tuesday. 19 of the 57 Dem Primary contests will be completed. There’s a good chance we’re looking at Bernie having won 15+ of these contests. If that happens, I don’t care about delegate math, he is the presumptive nominee.
I’m excited to start the work on building a coalition big enough not just to beat Trump but to send a message that this is the politics of our future. Bernie needs to not just win but win in dominating fashion. I think a popular vote victory bigger than Obama in 2008 is in play and to get anything done he likely needs that type of a mandate. So anyone that can be brought aboard needs to be. Whether it’s eDems or people who voted Trump in 2016 and now regret it or bringing out first time voters, we need to get everyone.
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I didn’t see it as a rebuttal, more like two sides of the same coin. As Chris says, the powerful use civility as a way to maintain power (a point I also made upthread, comparing it to the ways civility arguments have been used to counter other movements in American history). But regular people that support centrist positions don’t necessarily have the power, they just latch on to the argument as a way of maintaining a veil of moral supremacy while actually supporting the powerful.
Maybe another way to phrase it is “civility works as a method of maintaining power because it allows those that support the powerful to maintain their moral superiority.”
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I think @JohnnyTruant should look into this and whether
this is letting the regular people who support centrist positions off the hook a bit too much. No, they don’t have Charles Koch kind of power, but they do have some power/responsibility and the process of deflection may be just as conscious.
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True, I agree–perhaps that phrase was poorly worded. I was trying to draw a distinction between those who consciously do it and those who subconsciously do it, but that’s probably a distinction without a difference