Had three separate conversations today with three different Trump supporting friends. (Yes I’m asking myself why I have three Trump-supporting friends.) But anyway, my point is we are all fucked. They’re hopeless. One is convinced the election was stolen. Another thinks Biden is the bigger racist. And the last one is worried about “China”. Fuck. These are just rank-and-file Trump voters, not really militant about it. And armed insurrections don’t move the needle an inch with them.
The task before Biden is just impossible…literally impossible. How do you unbrainwash these people? I dunno. Just had to vent…but this is depressing as fuck. We’ve always had political differences within the country but I always had the sense we were pulling generally in the same direction. I fear those days are done forever.
It’s all over but I used to think it was going to take a long time, then I thought sooner but at least we have 4 to 8 years, now I doubt we make it 2 years before the country is practically unlivable and/or the government is overthrown.
I have been saying this for a while. The events of the last few months created hundreds (hopefully not more but I wouldnt be surprised) aspiring timothy mcveighs.
Right wing terror will be a main issue of biden’s presidency.
This is as much a problem with Biden as the task. For example, Biden probably wouldn’t even recognize these people as brainwashed.
There is a playbook for this stuff, but its not intuitive so I’m not terribly optimistic about it:
Implementing this kind if deprogramming on half the population is a huge challenge, for sure, but if any entity could do it the US Federal government is the entity.
Good thing we don’t have tens of thousands of citizens highly trained and experienced with violence and an abundance of legal and illegal weapons readily available.
I need some ideas here about how to approach my cousin. He’s not deplorable but his mom is. He seems to be losing it - sending her endless texts and emails trying to convince her Trump is evil. I guess while she and my mom were hanging out he sent 34 emails in a couple hours.
I’m legit worried he might be unstable and harm himself. He lost his job and sounds like he’s basically doomscrolling all day. His wife still has a job but she also takes medication for clinical depression and has been open about her battles with it. So he may be feeding off that. They have no kids.
So I’m going to call him. But I feel like the direct approach, “Hey my mom said you sent 34 emails in a few hours, let’s talk” might not go down well.
For background the aunt is not a frothy deplorable. But she is very religious and lives with my ultra-religious other aunt who has been in a cult-like church where they speak in tongues - since 1990 or something. She’s gone gone, there is zero talking to her. So I understand why my cousin’s mom just goes along with it. She’d either have to live a lie, or they’d live in the same house and never speak. Much easier to just accept most of the insanity. That’s what humans do.
So I’m not so much worried about the content of the talk with my cousin. I’ll lead with talking about my own doom-scrolling, then explain to him that he’s never going to convince his mom with logic and facts. I have already had this talk with him, but after the coup I think he’s lost it again and needs a refresher.
But I am interested in ideas of how to lead. I think the less direct approach might work better. Get him to talk somehow, talk about my issues, get him to complain about his mom and then give him a talk about how he’s never going to convince her. I just need some random ideas about how to open this because I’m stumped right now.
Do you have a relationship with him that it would not be weird to just call him out of the blue? If so, I wouldn’t lead with anything. Just call and ask how he’s doing, and then if he doesn’t bring up Trump, you can pretty easily segue to it by mentioning all the crazy stuff that’s happening and then talk about how hard it is to deal with all the conspiracy theories out there.
If that still doesn’t get him talking about his mom, you can be more direct and talk about how it must be tough having a mom who believes in the conspiracy theories.
edit: if you don’t normally talk to him much, you could lead with something like you need someone to vent about all the crazy stuff going on in the world and know he’s a receptive ear.
I never call anyone out of the blue. Talking on the phone drains my life force. Needs to be a reason.
But yeah I can reach out on text and ask if he wants to vent about the coup. But my fear is he’ll say no and then I’ll worry more about him. Maybe then I text the wife.
Seems like maybe 34 emails in an hour or whatever is at least partly because he’s not feeling heard by his mom. Maybe just listening and letting him know he is being heard by someone will help.
Texting more. He’s definitely depressed. But he has a therapist and is on anti-depressants. So I don’t think there’s a lot more I can do other than try to convince him to stop watching TV and find something to do/get some exercise.
This is why I don’t like UBI. I have sooooooo many friends who have lost their jobs, gone on unemployment, and immediately spiraled into depression and lethargy. One never got a job again and is on govt assistance/parental help for the rest of her life. She’s very smart too, which makes things even worse.
I do know a few friends who stayed active and creative. But it’s in the minority.
I also know my own traits - which bend towards the former. I need some kind of work to feel useful. So maybe I’d be the one who gets a job. But I could also see myself getting too depressed and just subsisting.
I really just want to state my position on this and not get dunked on 20 times, if that’s somehow possible. Nothing is ever going to convince me on this issue. I’m all for shorter workweeks, UHC, free college, even stuff negative income tax. I just worry about paying people just enough money to do nothing and be miserable - which I’ve seen play out many times and know I’d be vulnerable to. I feel like there’s something in most people’s nature that we need to feel useful to our tribe.
He and I agree on everything but yeah we had a good text-talk. He keeps haranguing his mom to give him some reason that she still supports Trump. But how are you going to respond when someone is sending you 34 emails in a few hours?
I explained to him my theory that it’s all about the other aunt. His reply: “It seems more important to her than her son’s sanity or respect.” which is pretty heartbreaking.
I told him that politics is all intertwined with religion now, and we all know you’ll never change someone’s religion with facts and reasoning. Maybe it got through a little.
The really messed up part is when he starts sounding semi-suicidal, I hear a lot of me in there and kind of relate to him. Not that I’m going to kill myself I promise. But I do have a pretty dour outlook a lot of the time.
I’d be a terrible suicide prevention counselor because some of the time I’d be thinking, “Yeah you make a pretty good case there.”
I wrote this out before I caught up fully with the thread but still wanted to include it to show why I’m really happy you guys were able to talk. Thanks for being a person he can lean on and just talk things through.
Tell him you’re freaking out a little and could really use someone to talk to about what’s happening. You know he’s got some thoughts so was one of the first people you thought of.
Don’t treat him like he’s got a problem you’re desperate to fix. He needs help processing what he’s experiencing. If you can just get him talking, that will happen on its own. You are good at this. I think things will go well if you can get him on the phone or something.
Also a good chance he’s just too far gone to reach right now though. Nothing you can do but wait until the fog clears and support him in whatever way is healthy for both of you until that happens.