Lots of discussion about data centres in various threads so thought I would consolidate. I’m also doing this selfishly because I’m very interested in opinions around this type of development. I’m currently working with a municipality to help them draft regulations for data centres and just co-authored a 110 page technical paper for them covering data centre types, technology, design, regulations, economics, stakeholder concerns, siting and safety.
My general opinion (before it’s claimed I’m a shill for meta) is this.
I have not directly worked with a company to advance a data centre but my company does do engineering for them
I’m not wholesale anti-data centres or anti-AI
I do think I understand the very real risks and impacts some data centres can have
I think there is a lot of misinformation about data centres in the general public
I feel like a lot of the hate directed at data centres is really hate for AI
I’m curious what people would like to see happen if they had total control? Is it all AI and data centres are banned totally? Is it some kind of regulation we are not seeing yet? Do we want control moved from companies like meta to governments? Other?
I’m hoping this can be a thread to consolidate the various discussions and flesh out best paths forward. I’m hoping it is not a place to yell into the void or call each other names. Preemptive lol me.
Hate for the arrogant super rich assholes intent on cannibalizing the planet, sucking dry the world economy, and grinding the entire human population to dust, all to feed their egos and insane drive for power and even greater wealth.
Yelling into the void. Anyway, thanks for the thread.
Data centers cause a lot of noise. People hate that more than anything else. In rural areas there’s no buffer like freeways or city traffic to mask it. In Vegas a major data center is built right next to a freeway, so I’m sure the sound is masked for all but the places that are a block surrounding it.
If you can’t figure out how to get the noise of a never ending buzz or hum isolated so it doesn’t leak out into the surrounding areas you’re always going to have a huge problem with the public where they’re attempting to be built. And that’s just one problem. Thinking this hate is about AI is absurd. AI is just the tip of the iceberg. This is worse than planes flying directly over houses which has made tons of people flip out. At least they get some break from the noise. Low frequency hums are also very bad for your body when sustained.
I’m sure you’ve been in a server room but even a relatively small machine room in a post-production facility sits at around 100dB. Larger ones are worse. These centers will be huge and I can’t even imagine you can walk the halls without ear protection. I hated not having ear protection in those machine rooms and people would spend 8+ hours a day in them. Most probably had significant hearing damage because no one wore protection.
Sure I get that. But then it isn’t really about data centres. Would the solution be governments to be developing them? Canada is proposing that for our federal AI strategy.
Noise is an issue for sure but there are solutions if regulators enforce them. Primarily it’s setting them away from other people. Noise levels drop logarithmically with distance, assuming other factors are constant like topography ect.
The big noise comes from ones that make their own power so we end up in a trade off. They are quieter if they connect to the existing grid but then they directly effect grid stability and the market price for electricity.
I’m saying they need to make the facilities ‘floating’ like a lot of recording studios (this is so nothing gets into the studio from outside and keeps the studio sound from leaking out with proper doors).
When you decouple from everything the sound ceases to be a major issue if you also isolate it above the float. Soundproof above and surrounding the facility and that concern will go away. The problem is that to do it properly it will be massively expensive. In a facility of those sizes I don’t know what depth and surround you’d need to fully decouple the sound, but I’d imagine it’s a lot and it may not be anywhere near as simple as a typical floating studio which may just use hockey pucks to create the float before putting the floor in.
Interesting. I’ve never seen this as a solution. I’m guessing due to cost as you point out.
That’s one of the issues with regulation in general. Almost any issue can be solved with enough money. Developers just like to claim all the time they can’t afford the solution. This is often true at the margins but also they often get away with not doing things they could really afford.
I have 5 within about 20 blocks of me but that is a bit of a cheeky answer because you really mean “are there any hyperscale data centres near me.” Answer is not yet but a couple are proposed not super far from me. Like 15 km away. There are none yet because this is all a new industry.
Sound, especially low frequencies, grabs on to everything it touches and multiplies exponentially. An improperly decoupled subwoofer may add 30+ dB (every 6dB is a doubling of ‘volume’ from the previous setting) of unexpected low frequencies to portions of a room that you can’t hear at the listening position (it’s called build up) and everyone uses acoustic treatments to try to tamp those areas of a room down so you’re not misled at the listening position.
Subwoofers are a massive challenge for anyone building a high quality studio. Now imagine that problem on a scale of 10,000 to 100,000. The opposition is fierce because those who live in rural areas find the sound unbearable even if it’s not close to them. It would also cause a constant vibration in the ground. The reality is they need to be built in big cities right next to freeways to create a masking effect in areas where people are already used to excessive noise (even though it will become much more noticeable late at night) and that real estate is way too expensive.
there is no debate. you’re helping the government spy on it’s citizens and you’re asking us to make you feel better about it
“how come everyone hates these surveillance centers i’m being paid to help build?!?” cmon man, and now you’re covering your ears bc you don’t want to hear the truth?!?
Not so easy to separate these things. Data centers are where the focus is right now. If demand collapses tomorrow, the fight will shift somewhere else because the billionaires will still want to be trillionaires. AI will temporarily stall like it has before while they look for another path to get to AGI or whatever.
Until and unless the bubble bursts, the fight over data centers will go on. I think they can be slowed but not stopped. It’s still worth fighting but probably our only real hope is they trip over their own dicks.
Ya. That’s another trade off that gets cited. The reason they are sited next to cities is access to telecom, water and power infrastructure which forces them into conflict with other people. Ideally they would be in the middle of nowhere but then they don’t have access to that infrastructure.
That’s one of the ways regulations need to be stronger. Right now most are required to do a noise impact assessment (NIA) but those are modelled studies and they are able to make lots of assumptions in them.
My position is arguing for no AI is a fools errand. I don’t see any real path to that end. Which leads me to focus on regulation and mitigation.
I think governments should be taking ownership of the AI infrastructure and not letting a few corporations build and own it all. It should be a utility.
I could teach AI how to mix like me because it’s coming for me one day anyway. But I’m not gonna help along that inevitability. I think that’s more the point they’re making. Mitigate later when it’s truly here not in advance.
