Why two shades of red in these graphs?
Sure, for most people the FDA approval thing is bullshit, but weāve seen enough anecdotes from people here that people with bullshit objections are also prone to change their minds over bullshit reasons. People are stupid and emotional, and so for a lot of them, vaccine objections arenāt from a reasoned, principled, and rigid place. It can turn on a dime. It shouldnāt be surprising that something like this flips some of them.
Can you spell this out a little more? I donāt think you are endorsing the ālessonā of this sexist joke, right?
The lesson is everyone draws the line somewhere. Not everyone draws the line the same place.
Weāve established that AiF is not an absolutist when it comes to the topic, but is claiming that it is universal that others should agree with him (or at least be labeled ābadā or feel bad).
Maybe not the best story to compare to, but it gets the point across. Archaic joke to be sure. Apologies if offends. Fair criticism. Was Napster Ok or was it like breaking into Joe Elliottās home and stealing or were they both shades of not OK (like wishing people dead?).
Now what about if we just fantasize about breaking into his house and stealing but we donāt actually do anything?
Was hoping to put the subject to bed with the thread changeover.
Summary
Iirc Def Leppard was high on the list angry about Napster
Yeah while I think virtually 0% of people that actually claimed FDA approval was the thing they were waiting for will turn around and get it now, I think thereās definitely a group of dummies who are just feeling general regret for refusing it and are looking for a face-saving reason for making an about-face, something they can tell their friends that sounds āsmartā or whateverā¦this is a perfect one to latch onto. āOh didnāt I mention I just didnāt trust the emergency approval process! This is what I was waiting for all along.ā
Yeah, good point and well said.
There was a time when the covid thread on this site was a source of valuable info.
You want a place to vent your dark thoughts that is fine. Maybe take it somewhere else. There is literally a thread dedicated to it. Why not contain it there?
Kind of like āinsert random story to try to make an analogyā
Cry more. Seriously
I would assume a bunch of them move immediately to āthe approval was completely rushed and reckless, theyāre just doing it to make Biden look good and Trump look badā.
eh, maaaaybe, but this seems like wishcasting
Bold could be āaverageā but that makes zero sense for the daily deaths on the right. Why would it be even bolder?
Itās gallows humor. Itās an internet message board. Apologies for giving some sincere analysis in response to a question.
Venting about Covidiots is certainly within the realm of reasonable expectations for such a forum.
Get out of here with this shaming nonsense.
I guess itās my turn in the inquisition chair, capān.
Have you got a timecode? Thereās no way Iām watching 30 minutes of that stuff.
The thing is, this shit is complicated and if you want to cherry pick stuff to get worried about, you can do it. The main reason we know theyāre not harmful is the large amount of data we have on them. Iāll write an explainer up.
Hereās a suggestion.
If you want good responses, go through the video and pick out the individual claims you want debunked. And then write out each one specifically (1-3 sentences) with a time stamp of when the claim is made so you have a numbered list. Then interested people can just pick out items in the list that they can refute easily. Maybe after a few days youāll get the whole list checked off and no one has to watch the whole video except for you.
Again, I donāt expect anyone to worry about my sensibilities.
People are allowed to post whatever they like.
That includes me saying we should contain celebrating death to the thread dedicated for it.
People will either agree with me or not and do whatever they want.
Itās really annoying that people are going to bring up the word captain whenever there is a minor disagreement.
Especially towards posters that were not even invited to Keeds mass invite.
Fair
This turned into more of an essay than I was intending, but here we goā¦
How do the mRNA vaccines work?
The machinery of your body normally translates your DNA into an intermediary called mRNA and then into proteins, the Lego blocks of life. The COVID virus uses a protein of its own, nicknamed the āspike proteinā, to enter your cells by binding with a receptor on the surface. The spike protein consists of two subunits, S1 which binds to the receptor and S2 which promotes fusion of the cell membrane with the virus membrane, allowing the virus to inject its payload.
The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines supply a piece of mRNA to your body which instructs it to make the spike protein. Your bodyās immune system then recognises this foreign invader and learns to destroy it, so that when the real virus shows up, your immune system remembers.
What happens to the spike protein when your body makes it?
The spike protein is supposed to stay anchored to the membrane of the cell in which it was made, but experiments have shown that the S1 subunit - one half of the spike protein, remember - is circulating in the bloodstream of people who have had an mRNA vaccine in the days after vaccination. Circulating levels of S1 are similar to those seen in people actually infected with the virus. Also, low levels of complete spike protein are seen a couple weeks after vaccination. This is probably because the cells in which they are anchored are being destroyed by your immune system. Itās not a problem for some of your cells to be destroyed, this sort of thing is happening all the time.
Is there reason to believe that the spike protein might be harmful?
Some experiments have suggested this. In one experiment, the spike protein was strapped to the surface of a pseudovirus - something that looks like a virus, but canāt actually reproduce - and given to animals intratracheally - that is, introduced directly into their respiratory tract. In another experiment, the same was done with just the S1 subunit. In both cases, the presence of this protein caused lung damage, even in the absence of any live virus.
Well shit, that sounds pretty fucking bad. Why arenāt you worried?
Just because you demonstrate that something can be dangerous under some circumstances, it doesnāt mean it will be dangerous under others. In these experiments, the animals were made to inhale a whole bunch of the spike protein. If you inhale powdered salt, it is probably going to fuck your lungs up pretty hard. This doesnāt mean you should be worried about the fact that you have piles of salt circulating in your bloodstream.
The fact that some people develop myocarditis after getting the vaccine means that the S1 protein probably is, at least in some people, an irritant to the vascular system. But I can also show you reams of documentary evidence that alcohol is damaging to multiple organ systems and that it will instantly kill you if you drink just a few multiples of what you might have on a big night out. You donāt worry unduly about this because you understand that damage typically just heals, and that quantity matters. Damage to the body is happening all the time, nonstop. If the vaccines were causing a level of acute injury which mattered, weād be able to spot that - just as we can when myocarditis does occur.
OK, but even if the spike protein isnāt causing immediate injury, what if it sticks around and causes problems in the much longer term?
This is not going to happen. Itās not like a heavy metal or something that can accumulate in the long term. Your body is made of proteins, itās used to dealing with them, there are whole systems in the body the purpose of which is to destroy proteins. In fact, āidentify and destroy foreign proteinsā is a pretty close description of what the immune system does.
Evidence that this is true is that in the SECOND vaccination shot people got, unlike the first one, circulating S1 was not detectable. This is because the immune system is latching onto it and nuking it before it can even reach detectability.
Any other reason to believe the spike protein, by itself, is not damaging in the bloodstream?
The Novavax vaccine, which is still in phase 3 trials, straight up just IS the spike protein, modified slightly to stabilise it and injected directly into peopleās bloodstreams. If circulating spike protein was dangerous, that would have caused massive problems right out of the gate. People researching it have not seen these problems.
Also, we now have data on millions and millions of people who have taken the vaccine. If there were problems, those problems would be detectable.
AHA, but you see weāre being lied to!
That would be a gigantic conspiracy, involving falsification of data by several competing pharma companies, and a cover-up of problems in the vaccine monitoring programs of a whole stack of countries. These coverups would have to involve ordinary doctors, public servants and health officials, not like CIA officers. While weāve had a lot of alarmism from people outside these systems, to my knowledge there are not any whistleblowers within the systems claiming that information is being covered up.
We already have examples of what actually happened when there were problems with the vaccines. A very rare fatal side effect in the AstraZeneca vaccine immediately became a huge global story, seriously hampering the rollout in Australia, where Iām from. The myocarditis side effect, also very rare, was immediately found and publicised by the Israeli Ministry of Health, as Israel was the first country to vaccinate a large percentage of its population. Large numbers of organisations in multiple countries are combing their medical data looking for these problems. Itās irrelevant what you think of the CDC.
You can if you like believe in a giant, globe-spanning conspiracy which for some reason failed to suppress the news that the AstraZeneca vaccine is capable of straight up killing you of acute blood-clotting, or alternatively you could accept that these theoretical ideas of how the spike protein might be harmful havenāt panned out in practice.
Yeah well it all sounds dangerous to me, Iāll take my chances with the virus
Yeah well being as how the spike protein is part of the virus, getting infected with COVID also guarantees that you will have it circulating in your bloodstream. Even if you donāt accept that empirical data shows that the vaccines are safe, the damage they might cause is theoretical at best. We know for a fact that the actual virus can cause vascular damage, nerve damage, lung damage and so on. With the way Delta is circulating, nobody is going to escape being exposed to the virus. Your choices are spike protein in your body now, or spike protein in your body later being wielded by an actual live virus busily replicating itself.
Very good suggestion by you and ChrisV and Iāll try to get to that tonight (itās not like I want to re-watch that entire thing again either lol). Itās just that when people are so goddamn strident about a position to the point of calling people sheep, Iād like to be able to have clear data on my side to explain why theyāre just plain wrong. And if I donāt, then I have to ask myself what makes me or my side so sure that weāre right?
A couple days ago I posted about ADE. One person (who I think is a doctor) gave a short once sentence reply of no itās not a concern. Iām sure heās busy and sick of answering dumb questions, but sorry, but that answer doesnāt cut it for me. People who know me from here, know I donāt just accept herd mentality or group think. I have trust issues and Covid aside, I damn sure donāt trust our government who we all KNOW has no qualms about lying to the American public about justifying wars and all kinds of other stuff. I fully believe Fauci lied about face masks in the beginning
But Iāll try to find exact spots and ask short questions about the guy in the vid. Problem is, there are facts on both sides. I can point to the facts that almost everyone currently hospitalized right now is unvaccinated. I can contend that itās far fetched that thereās some nefarious plot to harm millions of people with a vaccine. But I lack the knowledge and expertise about spike proteins and vascular problems that they are saying vaccines may cause
Iāll post some short questions. Thanks
Whoa! Didnāt see this! Thank you so much!