COVID-19: Chapter 8 - Ongoing source of viral information, and a little fun

[grue]

Well its started, 1 in 4 at the lower end grocery store I went to today were mask off. Literally all boomers.

I’m keeping mine on at least until I get to say, once, “oh yeah I’m not afraid of covid, I’m afraid of getting mistaken for a republican”

[Marksman]

But they are responsible for understanding the impact of what they say has.

They are not the science truther hotline.

There was pretty much no reason for them to have done their demasking announcement like they did when they did. It was clearly done with little consideration and seems likely they just wanted people off their back. So from that last bit, fail.

As someone noted above some states were using such things to incentivize vaccines, they crapped all over that.

Before Covid the CDC had a remarkable reputation and was held in high esteem. Since Covid through today they are the Apple dumpling gang and the keystone cops mashed together.

[Marksman]

Their name is the Center for Disease Control not the Center for Science Fun Facts.

What they did in no way helped control any diseases. It was hack.

[Trolly]

@Marksman

There was pretty much no reason for them to have done their demasking announcement like they did when they did.

I don’t entirely agree with the decision, but the justifications for it have been linked to ITT.

[Marksman]

[jmakin]

@JohnnyTruant

It isn’t my “fucking problem” anymore. I’m fully vaccinated and shut myself in my home for a year. I have a single roommate who is vaccinated. What on earth is me masking up for a few more weeks gonna do

It is going to allow cases to continue to drop and those who are unprotected to be safe, and as much as we want to pretend that is only dumb trumpers, it isn’t.

Cases are going to continue to drop.

If we extend your line of thinking to its conclusion then we should just wear masks forever because there’s always gonna be a nonzero chance of someone being exposed and dying.

Why would we do that? I mean why would extend it to a ridic place? That is a fallacy and one that is particularly unwarranted as I, and others, have already stated that it should go on until more people are vaccinated and the spread is down further, OR until there is a way to verify that people are vaccinated. Since that second will never happen, that leaves the first.

Because it looks like you are already doing this itt.

The vaccines clearly work. People have had enough of this. I’ve had enough of it certainly. It isn’t selfish to feel this way or breathe a sigh of relief once you are fully vaccinated. Lots of these same people have already done their part.

The virus doesn’t care what you have done, and allowing it to spread more because it was a tough year and a half is dangerous for everyone.

This is a severe misrepresentation of what I actually said.

I’m sorry but I have very little sympathy for people who choose to be unvaccinated. There are a very small number of people who will be at risk because they cannot get the vaccine - but me wearing a mask does not really do anything to help them. What needs to happen is everyone needs to be vaccinated. The CDC recommendation does not impede this. Maskless morons were always gonna be maskless morons and they have been doing so THIS ENTIRE PANDEMIC.

Every kid under 12 is ineligible and any minor who has antivax parents is a victim. Also, there are still plenty of people who want to be vaxxed who are in process and not immune yet. Everyone who gets sick is still taking up a hospital bed. We are talking a few more weeks to drop the spread.

This is why I am extending your line of thinking to a “ridiculous” place. The risk to those under 12 is so low it is effectively zero. You seem to want any nonzero risk to be met with maximum safety.

I will give you a real world scenario. I was in vegas this weekend and masks were PURELY optional. 50% or more of people still opted to wear them. I think you are really exaggerating the number of theoretical deaths that this will cause. What, IYO, will the number of deaths be from not delaying this recommendation?

We are still vaccinating at a rate of over 2 million a day. Rates are still dropping. I don;t have an answer to that question about deaths because it is not the relevant question to me right now, it is holy shit, we are making huge ground right now DAILY and slowing that down at the risk of keeping outbreaks fueled, kids at risk, and creating reservoirs for varients which YOU are now safe from but kids will not be so we can take off masks a few weeks early is a pretty simple decision from my pov.

Exactly, rates are still dropping. All signs point to them continuing to drop. I would be absolutely shocked and befuddled and will be prepared to eat crow if this trend reverses somehow. Possibly slowed? Sure, but we’ve seen in states like FL and TX that removing mask mandate way too early seemed to still somehow result in perplexingly good numbers.

I’m trying really hard to be nice here but you keep throwing out morality words like selfish and stuff, it’s hard to not interpret some of the stuff you’re saying as a broad brush attack on people who are saying “yes, I am vaccinated, I pose little risk to myself or others, therefore I will not wear a mask unless required.”

Do whatever you want. I don’t need anyone to be nice but if you think you are going to hurt my feelings in return by saying that it is selfish to say that now you are safe you are not concerned with kids, the people still in line, the people who are not fully immune and yes, even the people you have decided deserve to die from their own stupidity, then give me the word you want me to use instead or go ahead and be mean back.

Jfc I actually have no words for this. This isn’t remotely what I said.

[anon12304106]

I share some of the skepticism of others ITT about long-COVID, but I also think we should be somewhat humble about what we know about the long-term effects of this disease. So I dont really feel comfortable saying the risk of those below 12 is effectively zero.

[Marksman]

@Trolly

But also correctly anticipate what hypothetical morons will do with new information.

Again this is a substantial part of their job and responsibility. Determining how people react to information.

[WichitaDM]

@JohnnyTruant get back to us 2 months after your 2nd dose. I think your perspective is skewed because Canada is 2-3 months behind the US vaccine timeline tbh.

I truly sympathize and mostly agree with your points. But the US is never going to keep up 2020 level precautions (which were already inadequate) after all the non-morons are vaxed. Who has the will left to do it? No one. That doesn’t make it right or wrong but it’s reality.

[Marksman]

Different people.

[spidercrab]

@JohnnyTruant

What I am saying remains simple. There is a clear decline in cases that will get us to point of spread reduced greatly. That decline is happening very rapidly. That is from a combination of vaccinations and other precautions. One of the most effective precautions is mask mandates. As vaccination rates go up, immunity from recently vaxxed goes up, and the eligibility of younger pop goes down, we will have rapid reductions. Lifting the mask mandate, which this guidance defacto does, will make the short term more dangerous and in the medium term slow the decline some measure. We are in the middle of watching it drop.

I largely agree with all of this. The earlier you lift mask mandates:

1. The more you impose risk on some population of people.
2. The more freedom you give some population of people to go around maskless.

Those two things are true now, will be true in 2 weeks, and will be true in 2 months. Lifting mandates at any point will carry more risk than choosing to keep them in place another day. Your stance is very clear - you think the first factor far outweighs the second right now. (I get the impression you place zero weight on the second factor.) Other people think that the balance is much closer, or even tilts in the opposite direction. What’s frustrating to me about this back-and-forth is that you’re posting as if you think that there’s an objectively right balance pointing to an obviously-correct decision, and that anyone who sees things differently is some kind of selfish, morally reprehensible person.

[Trolly]

@Marksman

Again this is a substantial part of their job and responsibility. Determining how people react to information.

Their job is to get the best info they can out as clearly as they can. Dumbasses being dumbasses is not a thing they can ever control. Which is fine because dumbasses weren’t ever listening to CDC guidelines in the first place. One gets the sense that there’s a bit of scapegoating going on here.

I’m not even sure what your solution here is — mislead the public to get them to be more cautious? I’m sure that won’t blow up in their faces.

[amead]

I’m not your enemy sir, and as I’ve said I wish that mask mandates would remain in effect in most places, even for vaccinated people as a political/coercive tool to promote vaccine compliance.

You say that keeping mask mandates in place for vaccinated people should be done until community spread is lower, which I do not necessarily disagree with. However:

Community spread has been declining significantly, and is significantly lower than when the CDC recommended mask wearing for everyone, and certainly lower than when they re-affirmed that the vaccinated should continue to mask up. And things are trending down, and not up.

They apparently think that community spread IS low enough to relax the mask requirements for vaccinated folks.

You disagree, and assert that community spread IS NOT low enough. But when asked at what point you think it WOULD be considered low enough, you say that decision is above your pay grade.

Fair enough, but I do believe you have some obligation to at least share what criteria you will use to determine when there IS low enough community spread for this decision to make sense. Simply saying that “I’ll know it when I see it” isn’t super compelling and I think that inclines people to assume you are looking for more of a zero-risk scenario before you’d support allowing the fully vaccinated to drop their masks.

[anon12304106]

Several states are holding off until June 15th based on the timing of adults all being eligible for vaccination. So that at least lets the community build the immunity from adults that want to be vaccinated before ending the mask mandate. Seems like a reasonable approach if masking up for another year like the vast majority of epidemiologists suggest is just untenable with higher vaccination rates.

I’d also add that, while things are improving quickly here due to the vaccines and I’m not on the variant doom fest train, being at the peak of the global pandemic with fairly weak travel restrictions and many countries (some with high vaccination levels) seeing a surge isanother argument for more caution.

Seems like a low probability outcome, but if we are sitting here a month from now while Churchill is dunking all over the thread because some variant is laying waste to the unvaccinated and the ICU starts filled up with kids, this is going to be a pretty big multiple front own goal. I don’t really want to run ‘22 midterms on vote Democrat, we took Trumps F minus response on COVID and turned it into a C minus.

[WichitaDM]

I agree with everything you are saying basically about what SHOULD happen. Maybe I have finally given up. Maybe I have reached a moment of zen with everything with Covid in USA #1. Maybe I am just exhausted. But what I have reached is acceptance. This is as good as it’s going to get for me. Yes more people will get infected and die because of morons and moronic policy here. That’s a real shame. But I have accepted I literally can do nothing about it. Me wearing a mask or not likely doesn’t even rise to the level of 1/1000th of a net death. It might be much less than that. The difference is so slight as to be insignificant compared to anti-vax morons (which is like half the country) hitting up church and chucky cheese for packed bday parties.

Like it’s time for me at least to stop taking so much responsibility for the failures of other adults. I’ve alienated friends and family over this shit. Where did it get me? Did any of them listen? Of course not. Now the pandemic is almost over and I’m sure the fact they lived somehow proves I was a chicken little.

We live in a stupid timeline and a goal going forward is for me to take less responsibility and ownership of it. Not more.

[Danspartan]

Ouch

[Danspartan]

Is this whole debate

1. Agreement that scientifically that unvaxxed need masks and as far as spread itself vaxxed do not need masks

But

2. Unvaxxed are lying scum so everyone needs to wear masks because the the lying scum that claim they are vaxxed but actually are not.

And

Maybe there is some concern about vaxxed can still spread but mostly it’s because of the lying scum.

I’m not giving an opinion. Just trying to understand the 8,000 posts I skimmed.

[WichitaDM]

The best argument for cases being the same or higher now is that there are possibly tons of asymptomatic vaxed people walking around pozzed. Look at the Yankees. Now I have no idea if an asymptomatic pozzed vaxed person can spread Covid or not so it may not matter. I think the general consensus here has been that the odds are much less.

[WichitaDM]

Yes it’s lying anti-vax scum that is why we can’t have nice things. Same as it ever was.

[Danspartan]

I’m finding myself in the f them camp, hope they get long Covid and can’t get boners.

I feel bad for the “unable to be vaxxed but want to be vaxxed” vulnerables. But they should probably stay extra cautious anyhow.

If cases go back up I do want the mask mandates back.

But it’s time to be a realist here. Once we get to some reasonable number like 50% vaxxed it was always going to be masks off. At least in freedumb USA