It doesn’t escape total lockdown and strict social distancing, but these are impossible to achieve across the entire population.
Where people’s previous behaviour was sufficient to suppress the spread of the first covid type, B117 is 50 to 70% more infectious and that seems to be enough to overcome behavioural changes, at least in what’s called Tier 4 lockdown here.
And that they’re selfish. A lot of people will have concerns but still take the vaccine because they know it’s the right thing to do for society’s sake.
What is the potential harm from the vaccine?
Like a one in ten million chance of allergic shock.
I have less faith in mankind than you do. I don’t think it’s "a lot’.
Most people are selfish assholes. That’s why we eat meat, drive cars, etc.
As far as we know right now. I mean the quickest vaccine to market ever was mumps in 4 years right? We’ve never had a vaccine pushed on the entire populace with less than 6 months to observe any long term effects. We’re all taking some small leap of faith here and determining the risks are worth the reward. You don’t have to dial up concern about risks much to start thinking it’s not worth it.
That’s it? I’ve heard of temporary issues. I know someone who had it and got a fever/sick for a little while. But no other long term problems in the 1 in a 1000 range?
And yet humans are hyper-social creatures who will sometimes put the good of their tribe over their own lives. Young men committed suicide after Pearl Harbor when they couldn’t get into the military.
Social shame and not being part of the tribe also played a large part in that though. They weren’t putting the good of the tribe over their own interests.
They’re much more like the Wall St bankers who jump off the ledge during a crash despite being multi millionaires without mortgages.
At my sister’s hospital they are all required to get it, just like they are required to get the flu vaccine every year. I’m actually shocked that this is not standard for health care workplaces. I mean, they need to protect the compromised people that they work with every day.
This happens, but I don’t think it’s a lot of people. Maybe in absolute terms, but not as a percentage of the general population.
Pretty academic argument though at this point. It will be months and months before most young healthy Americans get the opportunity to get vaccinated.
Social shame and being part of the tribe is the whole reason we’re hyper-social creatures.
Sure.
It’s this
that I was disagreeing with.
I would guess covid vaccination will be required soon enough for most healthcare jobs. But they’ve decided it’s not worth fighting about right now.
It’s mostly what Suzzer alludes to. Long term stuff (e.g. autoimmune) that we just haven’t observed yet because the vaccine hasn’t been around long enough to see what happens after several years.
We can make an educated guess on those types of adverse outcomes based on our knowledge of vaccines and the observations we do have in the short term. At this point, the experts think that the chance of such side-effects is extremely low. Much lower than death or bad outcomes from COVID (even for young, healthy adults).
The definition of hyper-social is putting the good of your tribe over your own well-being. At extreme times that can mean jumping on a grenade, or say refusing to wear a mask in a pandemic as a tribal marker.
I think that’s stretching it to include people who feel unable to live with social shame, because it’s of no benefit to your tribe to top yourself except on some Darwinian level wrt fitness which is irrelevant when you consider all the far less fit people who didn’t top themselves (because they didn’t apply and suffer rejection).
I agree with this of course. I just don’t expect the scientifically illiterate masses to always be able to sift through the noise of our obviously corrupt FUBAR govt telling us something like RoundUp or Flint’s drinking water is safe vs. going straight to the scientific literature to confirm that vaccines in fact have a very low probability of long term side effects.
