COVID-19: Chapter 4 - OPEN FOR BUSINESS

No that’s about exactly how bad I thought it was at the time. I recall posting that it was hard to believe they were that stupid and it almost had to be intentional.

If you wanted to go for herd immunity, what better way to seed infections all over the country?

In fact, random thing that just popped into my head. Trump often refers to herd immunity as “herd” or “the herd.” Can anyone think of an example of him shortening something like that if he doesn’t like the word/idea/strategy?

He says “the hydroxy” a lot, but I don’t think I’ve heard him call the virus “the corona.” I feel like there are other examples but I’m blanking right now. If that’s a thing, him calling it “the herd” would be a huge indicator that’s the strategy, full stop. (As if it isn’t obvious enough.)

I admittedly skimmed that, but if the only way they’re determining that kids did or did not spread it in the household is positive tests, that’s a huge problem because most places weren’t testing kids for most of the pandemic since everyone thought they were either immune or immune to the symptoms/effects.

Can’t find what you don’t test for…

Not having kids, logically it seems like the Kawasaki thing is rare enough that it shouldn’t be as big of a factor as kids spreading COVID-19 asymptomatically. I’m pretty sure studies have shown a correlation between school closings and reduced spread. But of I had kids, I’d probably have the doors chained shut on my home and be up in arms over the idea of sending them to school.

Let me try to help JT out here by simplifying a bit what I think he’s getting at.

We know kids can get it. We know they can get serious effects, which appear to be very rare and also appear to lag infection by even longer than the typical COVID symptoms (making it harder to track). We have NO clue about long-term effects, either in severity or frequency. Experts think the risks are low, but another way to put that is “We currently have no evidence of severe long-term effects being particularly prevalent in kids.”

Well, no shit, it’s been a few months. How the hell would we know? BUT we will almost certainly know an order of magnitude more about all of that in 6-12 months, maybe several orders of magnitude more. Seems like erring on the side of being very cautious with kids is prudent as a parent.

Like if your opponent exposes his hand on the turn every time, you probably shouldn’t go too crazy on the flop.

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You vastly overestimate ~everyone’s intelligence.

(Unless you’re talking about everyone here. Then I mostly agree. I was adamant about masks when the CDC/WHO were lying to us.)

They aren’t making sincere arguments, ever. Each “rebuttal” is a response developed in isolation without any consideration or care for previous arguments they’ve raised.

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There are those who state: -

Wearing a mask doesn’t make you invincible i.e. you’re ‘probably’ safer 2m (8ft) away from someone without wearing a mask than you are within 2ft of them and wearing a mask.

There are reports that Covid-19 is 100x more likely to enter via the eyes than other viruses.

So, if you’re covering the outside of your mask, and possibly inside with Covid, then touching mask when removing, then touching face, having a rub of the eyes may well increase the likelihood of it passing through eyes.

Hence, the initial and most important message about soapy handwashing and not touching your face.

Not saying I don’t agree with masks, just alot of infections will be caused by the inevitable getting too close and infection transfer from mask (t-shirt) removal.

https://twitter.com/scottpasmoretv/status/1264394565861232640?s=21

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Of everything that’s fucked up these days - this probably depresses me more than anything.

And apparently never been told no, in their entire lives.

No parent is going to buy into this. The vaccine risk reward ratio is very high on the reward side. Get this shot and YOUR child will avoid measles, etc. At a cost of a very minimal risk of side effects.

Vs send YOUR kid to school as some kind of society benefit with NO health benefit to YOUR child but at some small but not minuscule risk to YOUR child.

Good luck with that sales pitch. And this is 2 months in on high levels of infection. What is the time lag for other impacts to show- this thing impacts organs all over the body, we should be treating it with a lot more respect for the high potential for long term health effects we can’t see yet?

Early on I was theoretically in favor of taking 20-30 year olds and locking them away for two months with all the alcohol and condoms they could consume (Olympic village if you will). Develop a herd immunity in the highly mobile and an immune workforce. I never thought it was practical or realistic to implement. But even then you are sentencing 1-2 per 10,000 to death and 20-40 to serious cases. Now with more knowledge it’s really stupid both in terms of long term health effects but also uncertainty over long lasting immunity.

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It would seem to me that interferon and interleukins would have been some of the first things injected into to people when this thing started.

Any in vivo studies?

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Tough to support anything that guy says considering he wrote this:

https://www.salon.com/2016/04/29/a_liberal_case_for_donald_trump_the_lesser_of_two_evils_is_not_at_all_clear_in_2016/

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No I think only in cells in a lab, so far. That’s up next, I assume.

I see your insane Lake of the Ozarks video and I raise ya. All in.

https://twitter.com/maxbaker_15/status/1264386140720771076?s=09

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Not really up to date with thread but when is the US spike expected? Surely the fudging of numbers can’t be this crazy in USA? Or is it just that more of the country is still fairly locked down than I understood? Weather? It is strange to see European cases going down as lockdowns ease.

In front of Berlin’s Brandenburg Gate a politically incongruous crowd of protesters gathered on Saturday. They wore flowers in their hair, hazmat suits emblazoned with the letter Q, badges displaying the old German imperial flag or T-shirts reading “Gates, My Ass” – a reference to the US software billionaire Bill Gates.

Around the globe, millions are counting the days until a Covid-19 vaccine is discovered. These people, however, were protesting for the right not to be inoculated – and they weren’t the only ones.

For the ninth week running, thousands gathered in European cities to vent their anger at social distancing restrictions they believe to be a draconian ploy to suspend basic civil rights and pave the way for “enforced vaccinations” that will do more harm than the Covid-19 virus itself.

Walking towards the focal point of the protests down the Straße des 17. Juni boulevard, one woman said she believed the Covid-19 pandemic to be a hoax thought up by the pharmaceutical industry.

“I’d never let myself be vaccinated,” said the woman, who would give her name only as Riot Granny. “I didn’t get a jab for the flu either, and I am still alive.”

The alliance of anti-vaxxers, neo-Nazi rabble-rousers and esoteric hippies, which has in recent weeks been filling town squares in cities such as Berlin, Vienna and Zurich is starting to trouble governments as they map out scenarios for re-booting their economies and tackling the coronavirus long term.

Even before an effective vaccine against Covid-19 has been developed, national leaders face a dilemma: should they aim to immunise as large a part of the population as possible as quickly as possible, or does compulsory vaccination risk boosting a street movement already prone to conspiracy theories about “big pharma” and its government’s authoritarian tendencies?

Preliminary results of a survey by the Vaccine Confidence Project and ORB International, carried out when infections in Europe were still rising rapidly in early April, show resistance to a vaccine to be especially high in countries that have managed to avoid the worst of the pandemic.

In Switzerland, where immunologists have proposed that mass vaccinations could take place as early as October, 20% of people questioned said they would not be willing to be vaccinated. In Austria, vaccine scepticism was similarly rife, with 18% of those questioned saying they would reject vaccination.

In Germany, where 9% opposed vaccination in April, the figure may have since increased as the virus has claimed fewer victims relative to other countries. A parallel survey by the university of Erfurt found the number of Germans asked whether they would take a Covid-19 vaccine when it became available had dropped from 79% in mid-April to 63% last week.

In the UK, where ORB International surveyed opinions from 6 to 7 May, 10% of respondents said they were unwilling to be vaccinated.

While scientists predict that immunising about 70% of the population could be sufficient for the virus to vanish, there are concerns that a noisy minority could seize the narrative around vaccination.

There’s a real fear of an unholy alliance between esoteric leftwingers, the far right and the Reichsbürger movement

Natalie Grams, doctor

Germany’s foreign minister Heiko Maas has jokingly advised the public to “keep a lot more than just a 1.5-metre distance” from those spreading conspiracy theories, but fears of the movement growing into a force equivalent to the Pegida protests against Angela Merkel’s asylum policy seem to be shaping the thinking in Berlin’s seats of power.

In spite of some scientists calling for mandatory vaccination against Covid-19, health minister Jens Spahn has said he would favour a voluntary programme, while the mooted introduction of “immunity passports” for those who have been vaccinated or developed antibodies was withdrawn from a new “pandemic law” that passed through the Bundestag this month.

“There’s a real fear of an unholy alliance between esoteric leftwingers, the far right and the Reichsbürger movement,” said Natalie Grams, a doctor and author who specialises in debunking claims about the effectiveness of alternative medicine.

“When it comes to people strongly opposed to vaccinations, you are usually looking at 2-4% of the population in Germany. But with this alliance you are looking at broader resistance among the population.

“While there isn’t a vaccine but everyone is talking about one, the anti-vaccination movement has found a perfect environment to flourish”, said Grams, who used to practise homeopathy herself. “Virologists are weighing up evidence and come up with slightly conflicting advice, while the big health bodies take weeks to formulate their messages. Anti-vaxxers are exploiting this uncertainty.”

In France, anti-vaccination sentiments are seen as a phenomenon of the current millennium, fed by a wider distrust of central government. In German-speaking countries, by contrast, wariness of vaccination programmes dates back to the 19th century.

In the first half of the 20th century, anti-vaxxer views converged with anti-semitism: the Third Reich was rife with conspiracy theories presenting vaccination programmes as a Jewish plot to either poison the German nation or “submit humanity to Jewish mammonism”.

Some historians believe that voluntary vaccination programmes against Covid-19 would not only be less politically risky but also more effective at protecting the population from coronavirus.

“When it comes to vaccination programmes, the debate is rarely about the disease itself but about the relationship between the individual and the state”, said historian Malte Thiessen, who runs the Institute for Westphalian History in Münster. “In Germany this is a question that goes back to the 19th century: can the government force people to be healthy?”

Once (if) a vaccine is readily available to all people refusing it do so only at their own risk, and frankly the rest of the population is better off without these dangerous fuckers.

My understanding is that most vaccines are not 100% effective, and thus rely on herd immunity. So, we probably need those dangerous fuckers to get their shit together and take the vaccine.

These people are nuts. There’s no way I’d do that even pre COVID-19.

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This fuckin’ year, man.

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There are really four things masking or still preventing the increase in cases:

  1. NY/NJ used to be roughly 50% of the new cases/deaths. They are now 10%. Most of the country’s numbers are flat or increasing over the last few weeks but this is mostly hidden in the national data by the dramatic decrease in cases/deaths in NY/NJ.

  2. Restrictions remain in effect in the hardest hit places which also happen to include some of the biggest cities in the US.

  3. In places where restrictions have been lifted R likely remains way less than on March 1st. No school, lots of WFH still, mask wearing, no sports/concerts, some people still staying home and possibly the warmer weather all make the rate of infecfion lower even though Chili’s is open.

  4. Significant lag between infection and positive test results and death. Restaurants weren’t opened anywhere until May 1. Bars weren’t really open anywhere until about May 15th(and remain closed lots of places). Add up the fact that it takes 7-14 days to get symptoms and probably a couple more days to decide to get tested and then up to a week to get results and new positive cases we are seeing right now were infected at the very end of April or beginning of May. Most of the country was still closed or just beginning to reopen. As far as the death stats go, the people being reported now as dead from Covid-19 almost all got it prior to the end of lockdown.

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