I’m not in tech, but I suspect there’s a similar phenomenon. I looked a little bit at Glassdoor, and while it’s impossible to run a scientific analysis, the US/Europe pay gap definitely seems to exist. And then if you’re not getting tax equalization, that’s another 20-25% of your income gone. So while money is not my primary item, it has to be considered.
All valid points, but with no kids living in Europe seems like a slam dunk right now.
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I work in a large tech company and we have many immigrants/expats from European nations and Canada. They cite the significant salary differences and growth opportunities as a motivation to come to the US. Most cite the social aspects as a bit of a negative but feel that the much high wages make up for it.
Move down into the sub 100k USD/year jobs and you’ll see a totally different picture. Immigrants from Europe at that level tend to have immigrated for family reasons.
At that level the wage gaps are much lower plus the relative value of the social safety net is much higher.
TLDR … The US is actually great country for upper middle class/entry level rich people purely from an economic perspective.
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It’s like they say: a hamburger by any other name costs twice as much
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I think we would really really enjoy it, and have long wanted to have that experience. But if comes at a 50% effective pay cut, that’s rough.
I assuming I’m being asked at this point, because after an interview tomorrow, they are likely going to either choose, or narrow to a final couple candidates for a final interview, and comp will be part of their decision-making.
I’m pretty in the dark as to what the company is prepared to do in terms of expat benefits. Also, I can’t imagine HR hasn’t gotten my previous comp at the company. So I think for now, saying that I expect to be in line with previous comp and doesn’t disqualify me.
I mean all the stuff you’re talking about comes from taxes and these salaries are before taxes I assume so I don’t see why that would affect it.
I could see working more being a big thing though. Like its common to work 60+ hours in the US, is that common in Europe? Even if salaried you expect much bigger compensation if you’re working insane hours.
Would it surprise you to learn it’s illegal to work that many hours per week in some parts of Europe?
When you say “smaller start-up” how small are you talking and how much have they raised (and what series was the last round)?
I would not factor equity in AT ALL in my decision to take any offer. It is 100% a lottery ticket no matter what they say (there are literally millions of examples of “can’t miss” companies that imploded for all sorts of reasons, it absolutely can happen). Plus, there is a big trend towards keeping companies private as long as possible, which makes it extremely difficult to cash out even if your options are in the black (and companies are increasingly structuring options such that you’re contractually prohibited from exercising and selling on the private market without their approval).
That is wrong. The 15% are capped. Its called a contribution assessment ceiling(german: Beitragsbemessungsgrenze). For health insurance its 4.8k€ per month in 2021. If you earn more than that you dont have pay the 15% on that income. This is a huge problem for the social system. So people with low paying job have to pay the 15% like the rich but the rich benefit once they reach the cap. Often enough these systems end up having deficits which have to be filled up with taxes which could be avoided if you dont let the rich people of the hook.
I know at least my friend is over the limit and I assume my brother as well.
I dont work for health insurance I work for a health care provider.
What did you have to pay out of pocket on physical therapy? The co-payment? That is only because the PT lobby is not as strong as the doctor’s lobby which negotiated to get rid of that. Even if you get rid of it, its still part of the bill but the health care insurances might add another 0.1% to include the cost.
Why do you have to call someone to ask what the insurance pays? The doctor prescribes and you pay the co-payment. The insurances pay everthing else. The problem is that doctor’s have a budget and usually tell you that they cant give you another prescription because they dont want to go over their budget.
What kind of knee injury? There are lists with illnesses that are exempt from the budget for a period of time or if you have some bad stuff which is generally exempt from any budget rules.
You hate your health insurance so now imagine you dont have it and you need a synthetic knee implant. Do you really think you would be better of paying all of that out of pocket?
And btw a lot of this co-payment stuff and so on is because people dont pay their fair share when they are over the limit.
Right now we have waiting times in PT for about 4 weeks. Without health care providers there would be a lot less PT providers and the wait time would go up. The health care providers paid money to keep the practices during the pandemic open. There was no payment from the private insurances which use the same facilities. In the last few years the health care providers also increased the prices for our services so that we can offer better wages because young people just dont want to get into that profession because you can earn the same amount of money with less effort elsewhere where you also dont have to deal with patients that smell like an ash-tray, dont wash themselves regularly or annoying generally.
And btw: Its lawmakers who decide what stuff the health care insurance providers have to cover. So may ask your delegate about this.
Sorry but that is no believable. If you are on statutory health insurance and you have to pay for it then you got lied to? What did you get prescriped? (Krankengymnastik, Manuelle Therapie, Lymphdrainage, Ultraschall or something else(sry for german)).
If they gave you a blue paper(A6) then this would mean you have to pay for it yourself. In that case you should instantly call your insurance and tell them about it because that is forbidden. Doctors do that if they dont want to strain their budget or prescribe something that is not covered which in most cases are only the bogus therapies without any scientific evidence behind it. As soon as a doctor gives you a prescription he/she signales that you need treatment and as a member of statutory health insurance it has to be at the cost of the this health insurance. Anything else is forbidden.
wasted space
When you say “smaller start-up” how small are you talking and how much have they raised (and what series was the last round)?
Company started in 2017 and best I can piece together, has raised about $50 million, in somewhat equal size raises in 2019 (Series A), 2020, and 2021 (Series B). Not sure what 2020 was considered. Info is per news releases and crunchbase.
I’ve been told there is discussion of another raise soon. I’m so new to this space that I don’t if that’s a good (investors see growth potential) or bad thing (losing money and need more), but I think more the former since tons of companies aren’t profitable and it’s all about growth of revenues right now.
I would not factor equity in AT ALL in my decision to take any offer. It is 100% a lottery ticket no matter what they say (there are literally millions of examples of “can’t miss” companies that imploded for all sorts of reasons, it absolutely can happen). Plus, there is a big trend towards keeping companies private as long as possible, which makes it extremely difficult to cash out even if your options are in the black (and companies are increasingly structuring options such that you’re contractually prohibited from exercising and selling on the private market without their approval).
I agree I probably won’t value it in my consideration. It appears as though the base + any bonus will be sufficient for my needs such that I can’t treat any equity as a lotto ticket. If and when I get an actual offer I’ll see if this assumption changes.
I have a friend that works for Impossible Foods and apparently everyone there is waiting for the 85+ year old founder to die so they can go public, but he’s a super healthy guy so it could be a long wait!
I’ve never been in a position to get equity in a company, so I never really cared about the details. But one thing that I remember being really surprised by was the notion of a liquidation preference and how a liquidation overhang could make seemingly-valuable employee equity completely worthless.
This is a pretty good write-up:
Series B is pretty small, I’m currently at a soon-to-be series B company and considering a move to a just-got-series-A company, and have worked at multiple startups in various states all the way up to series E.
Raising another round isn’t good or bad in and of itself, like you noted, it depends on the reasons. In “normal” times (lol what’s that) a company that is truly on fire can’t raise a round and either implodes, gets acquired for pennies (this is not fun), or gets a “down round” (all of your options based on the previous valuation are now underwater, and honestly there aren’t a whole lot of down round success stories). Nowadays, however, VC funds have shittons of cash sitting around and they will absolutely stuff them into bad companies just to try to re-inflate them. You need to get a clear picture of why they’re raising, which will be hard to do even if you know someone at the company unless they’re extremely high up or very connected.
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What would be an encouraging reason for raising more money vs. a red-flag reason?
Through the interview process and prior jobs, I am connected to the CEO and a couple of their direct reports. So I can ask questions - what you never know is how straight an answer you’re getting. Without getting too in-depth on the business model, I believe they’d be getting another round to hire more on the sales side, and make sure they continue growing the top line. CEO’s biggest concern/goal is an accelerated growth trajectory. Need to do more deals and grow revenues.
Dumb question - if you move companies like you are considering, do you forfeit all your equity? Or does it typically vest over time and if they later go public or have a trigger event, you can cash in?
they’re looking to expand into a new area, add a new direction to their existing product, or scale up massively, stuff like that which will require cash outlays way ahead of the revenue the move will generate (assuming it works, of course).
e.g. Common scenario, company has a software product that they ship to customers and the customers install the software inside their datacenter/vpc and operate it themselves. Company wants to offer a SaaS version of their product, which will require hiring a ton of engineers/product managers to re-write the app to run at scale, an additional marketing team etc, requires hiring a bunch of SREs to deploy and operate the SaaS, and obviously the infrastructure costs (these actually scale a bit more in-line with actual revenues, but the other costs are mostly up front and can add up fast).
the fact that they’re hiring at all is generally a good sign, but knowing if you’re just an attrition replacement or if this is net new headcount would be a good indicator.
Generally you have 30 days from termination to decide whether to exercise any vested options. The standard plan is four year vesting with a one year cliff, e.g. you get zero vesting for the first year, on your first anniversary 25% of your initial grant vests, and then after that it vests proportionally every quarter or month.
if you do exercise, you’re basically stuck holding the shares until a liquidity event occurs, which is usually IPO or acquisition. Some firms will occasionally have tender offers, which means they’ll buy your shares (if you want to sell) at whatever the current “fair market value” is, which is basically whatever they tell you it is. There are some secondary markets but they are extremely complex and have huge fees and your contract will probably prohibit you from trading this way, and unless your shares are extremely hot you’ll probably be giving a ton of vig away.
I changed jobs in 2019, I was fully vested and exercised zero shares, which is probably the best move I ever made in my life as that company imploded like 6 months later (I knew it was bad, but not that bad, and my shares were pretty low-priced since I had been there a long time. I would have gotten absolutely clobbered on the taxes (when you exercise you’re instantly on the hook for capital gains on the difference between your strike price and the current “fair maket value” of the shares)). A lot of ex-cow-orkers got absolutely slaughtered.
I left the next company about a year later and did exercise the 25% I had vested, I have no idea how long it will be before I’m able to do anything with those.
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Update from the job process: I just signed and accepted an official offer from the company. They gave me everything I wanted and I’m excited to get started! Just need to pass the normal drug screen and background check.
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Hmm my bosses’ bosses’ bosses’ boss, a VP I’ve never spoken to, wants a 10 minute “connection” with me at 7:30am next week 