Bump this thread every time the biden administration releases people from the border concentration camps

[spidercrab]

Latest episode of The Weeds podcast has a good discussion about how Biden’s immigration policies differ from Trump’s. Answer appears to be:

• not much of a difference with regard to border policies
• more of a substantive difference with regard to individuals already inside the country

Definitely unlikely to change many minds in this thread, but still an interesting listen.

[microbet]

Is that supposed to be responsive? He didn’t say it was illegal, he said it was insane. And I bet he knows more about law than you do.

[microbet]

@CaffeineNeeded

This causes you to call me a stupid racist idiot.

Lol at me calling you a racist. The thought never entered my mind.

[Basic]

Setting aside the myriad differences in context, one person is different than thousands from a safety assessment standpoint.

[microbet]

I would love for there to be a charity to help families in Central America put kids on planes to the US and be met by family here. But then everyone involved in the process would be committing crimes and the family who received them here could be deported if they aren’t citizens. You can go to prison here for just giving water to someone crossing the desert.

[CaffeineNeeded]

@microbet

A young white American kid wandering around gets into a social worker’s care and either their parents found or into the vast existing foster care system asap. An older white American kid (not in the ER) is left alone if they aren’t in obvious trouble.

What you are saying is, “be real, they are criminals, the police have to keep tabs on them”.

Yet it’s ridiculous for me to take this as calling me a racist. Thanks micro jeez.

[microbet]

Whatever. I didn’t mean you were a racist. You are defending the system though and the system is racist. I also believe you don’t believe in the border - I think you used to be a libertarian. And I also don’t think much better is realistic. So we don’t really disagree on much really, except you want to defend the assholes doing it because they are Dems (lol) and I want to call them assholes.

And falling for there’s a huge surge of children (caravans!) is dumb. The obstacle to treating the kids better is the border, immigration law, and the federal government that is now under Joe’s admin.

[CaffeineNeeded]

@microbet

You are defending the system though

Are you really reading anyone’s post? You get called dishonest because this is plainly not true for anyone here. You don’t seem to be capable of holding an honest discussion on this topic.

[microbet]

Jesus man. Of course you’re defending the system. Do you think you have to actually type the words “I am defending the system” to be defending the system? Your posts are right there.

[CaffeineNeeded]

Our difference in opinion stems from what we think is possible in the short term. It is not that the system overall needs to be vastly changed. Like you say, the posts are there.

[microbet]

@CaffeineNeeded

So you’re ok with taking them to any random place as a co-sponsor with zero checking to make sure that’s a safe place?

That does not seem like a good idea.

This is a defense of the system.

@CaffeineNeeded

I mean, hard to see that post as an attempt at honest discussion too, but I’ll try. I’d detain any child in the ER and file a CPS report for a child sent by their parents to make such a trip alone. CNN’s latest article on this involves kids 2 to 6 years old being sent over on a raft. If someone did that in the US, I’d detain them too in a heartbeat.

It takes time to set those arrangements up when a ton come at the same time, and it needs to be done correctly.

This is a defense of the system.

@CaffeineNeeded

I think you mean legally required. If a parent sets their child to make an unsafe trip like so many of these kids do, I’m bound by law to ensure that they are discharged into safe custody. I cannot just let them go on a promise they’ll find their uncle or whatever.

Once you take custody of a child you are legally required in every other context to ensure that they are going to the right place. I don’t see why the border should be different.

This is a defense of the system.

@CaffeineNeeded

It doesn’t matter if they are older. I can’t let a 15 year old just go either. You can either deal with the reality of borders or not, frankly I’m not in favor of them at all really, but when you aren’t addressing the reality of the situation there’s not much more to talk about.

This is a defense of the system.

@CaffeineNeeded

It’s a great goal, but it’s not realistic in the short term . I think the vast majority of us here would like this solution.

This is a defense of the system.

@CaffeineNeeded

No it refers to large numbers of children crossing at once and the moral duty we have to see that they are placed safely.

This is a defense of the system.

[microbet]

So I’ve explicitly said that I don’t disagree with you on what is realistic in the short term. You are the one not reading posts bro. I’m not sure we agree on what the obstacles are though.

But, this is confusing.

@CaffeineNeeded

It is not that the system overall needs to be vastly changed.

You said something about being against borders. Didn’t you?

[CaffeineNeeded]

I’m not sure what to say other than exactly what I just said.

[microbet]

Ok, that’s me reading your post wrong I think.

Still, as I said, I don’t disagree on what is possible in the short term. We won’t have open borders, we won’t abolish the police, we won’t legalize drugs, we won’t have M4A, we won’t have campaign finance reform, etc, etc… Probably not long term as well as short term. Doesn’t mean it’s ok. Doesn’t mean the Biden admin isn’t kidnapping innocent people and putting them in jails.

[Basic]

@microbet

kidnapping

If you sent your young child to wander across the southern border on foot into Mexico and told them to find a relative, you would consider it “kidnapping” if the Mexican government took that child, found crossing the border alone, into care?

[eeAWW]

The “care” we’re placing these kids into is that of goons who refer to Latin immigrants as “tonks”–the sound made when you hit them in the head with a metal flashlight. There were kids who died last year under the same care.

If I were a kid trying to reach my family, I’d be much more afraid of being rounded up by those goons and thrown into a cage (during a pandemic no less) than whatever dangers people ITT are imagining.

[microbet]

Most of the people in custody are adults. That counts as kidnapping too. The other part is “it depends”. If I sent my 16 year old 1100 miles somewhere and she was being met by my brother (something I’ve done), I would consider it kidnapping if the police put her in jail.

So, you’re talking about the unaccompanied 5 year old? Maybe that’s happened. Maybe not. It’s the exception and no reason to go to bat for kidnapping everyone else.

[microbet]

Yep. West Wing deluded people think if they just try harder they’ll get cops who aren’t like this despite evidence that spans millenia.

[Basic]

I wasn’t talking about adults. That has never been the subject of the discussion regarding unaccompanied minors, and how best to keep them safe.

You did not send your child by foot, through dangerous terrain, correct? It’s not equivalent. Of course if the airlines or greyhound driver detained your 11-year old traveling via those means it would be roundly decried. Please be consistent, especially when you choose incendiary language like “kidnapping”.

The question, as always, when it comes to assessing the risk to a particular child is whether the parent’s actions are reasonably calculated to ensure their safety. The minors’ parents in almost all of these cases did not act reasonably; they acted neglectfully.

[microbet]

If the police stopped kidnapping everyone the trip wouldn’t be dangerous. People wouldn’t be sent across the desert with smugglers. Their parents would bring them over or they’d be met by relatives right at the very safe border crossings.