Biden thread III: Still Robinette after all these years

[Melkerson]

@Riverman

Obama didn’t leave the party in very good shape. He had 8 years to cultivate a real bench and completely failed.

Who did Bill Clinton cultivate? Gore? Hillary?

[Melkerson]

@bbb7979

It can be done but who is there today who has a shot?

Bernie had a shot. Unfortunately the dark side was just powerful enough.

[AngryQueer]

@Melkerson

@bbb7979

It can be done but who is there today who has a shot?

Bernie had a shot. Unfortunately the dark side was just powerful enough.

You’re seriously going to call the Black voters of South Carolina "the dark side "?

[MimosaDef]

@AngryQueer

What I’m saying here is there’s a lot of lazy, selfish, stupid people taking very funny high grounds.

Indeed!

[bbb7979]

I think they shouldn’t be above criticism, and if they’re just pulling the lever for whoever Clyburn tells them to (which is how I’ve heard those primaries described) then they should be criticized.

Regardless the dark side is not the voters but Clyburn and other key leaders of the black caucus who influence them being part of the same corrupt machine as Pelosi

[clovis8]

In the previous many federal elections, I was on here and our predecessor sites making the “vote for the better of two bad options” arguments. You can find those posts. There are lots. However, at some point you just have to accept the system is so broken and corrupt that supporting either side is really just supporting the system. It feels like the US in there.

I’m only weakly convinced of this idea as I have deep institutional roots. I still door knock here and work my local party. However, if I could vote in the US I would be struggling very hard about what to do this election.

That said, I hope I am wrong and I am glad people like skydiver are still willing to do the work and by some miracle their collective efforts can pull the country from the brink.

As for the debate, it’s lose lose. You are using the most normy political structure of all time to go toe to toe with the most efficient norm destroyer to ever exist. There is no chance it turns out good for Biden. There is nothing Trump can do to hurt himself. Nothing.

[bobman0330]

Proportional representation doesn’t require Constitutional change, and a differently motivated Congress could claw back a lot of the power that has been ceded to the executive branch.

More speculatively still, depolarizing the partisan political environment could make constitutional amendments more realistic, because they wouldn’t have obvious winners and losers.

[Trolly]

@clovis8

As for the debate, it’s lose lose. You are using the most normy political structure of all time to go toe to toe with the most efficient norm destroyer to ever exist. There is no chance it turns out good for Biden.

You guys keep saying this as if the last debates weren’t a win for Biden.

[clovis8]

This “win” is it’s not a total catastrophe for Biden. Trump is 100% irrelevant.

He wins more by not doing it and just giving some big public speech.

[Trolly]

You’re just doom spiraling at this point.

[WichitaDM]

Epstein

[clovis8]

Or you are wish casting.

Who knows.

[kre8tive]

@CaffeineNeeded

calling him “cancer” or a “shit sandwich”

Trump is the cancer, Biden is the shit sandwich I will be forced to eat.

On the bright side, we have front row seats to the decline of a world Superpower.

Enjoy the ride.

[ViridianDreams]

@CaffeineNeeded

@kre8tive

This upcoming presidential election exemplifies everything wrong with American politics. A choice between cancer and a shit sandwich and at the end of the day the only winners are the donor class regardless of result.

Ok so I can buy someone not being bidens biggest fan as someone on the left, but calling him “cancer” or a “shit sandwich” that winning would only be the donor class is absurd. Roe v wade is very much on the ballot this year for starters, not to mention how Trump is threatening to try to deport 10 million people… or how Biden actually has done things for the middle and lower classes that Trump would immediately undo. It’s an absurd position.

While the bar is pretty low, Biden has probably been the best President in living memory at the very least regarding representation of Native Americans.

[mosdef]

@Trolly

You guys keep saying this as if the last debates weren’t a win for Biden.

Genuine question - is there any evidence that suggests that Biden’s win is in any way attributable to Presidential debates, or is this just post hoc narrative building. I am skeptical that the debates really influence much other than the news cycle, but I am willing to be proved wrong.

[ViridianDreams]

@mosdef

@Trolly

You guys keep saying this as if the last debates weren’t a win for Biden.

Genuine question - is there any evidence that suggests that Biden’s win is in any way attributable to Presidential debates, or is this just post hoc narrative building. I am skeptical that the debates really influence much other than the news cycle, but I am willing to be proved wrong.

They seem like a huge zero-sum negative freeroll where the best a candidate can hope for is to not lose ground but stands the possibility of making a gaffe that does significant damage.

[LFS]

I totally get what you guys are saying but we here are like top .001% of informed voters. It is breathtaking how many people are walking around with almost nothing in their heads. And the people who DO know anything are being told over and over that Biden is a dementia patient being spoon-fed mashed peas by nurses and that Trump is a strong and cogent masculine genius. IMO Biden in reality is way better than Biden in most know-nothing’s heads. Heck, Biden in reality is way better than people here think he is!

[WichitaDM]

I had an interesting conversation the other night with one of my similar thinking friends about how you would rank the presidents of our lifetime (Reagan-present). And we both agreed Biden would be first with Obama a very close 2nd. My instant thought was Obama but after thinking more about it I think it has to be Biden. Biden at the bare minimum has been killing less people with drones (I think). Obama has a pretty high body count. I think it’s pretty clearly:

Biden
Obama
Clinton
Bush
GWB
Reagan

So I would tend to agree that Biden is the best president in recent times but the bar is so so low.

ETA-Just realizing I forgot Trump LOL. I’m actually not sure if I would put him ahead of or below Reagan. If I remember right we had him above Reagan.

[Danspartan]

Policy-effectiveness-judges

Biden does well in all 3 compared to Clinton and Obama. Carter might as well have been a different century…

Obama got the ACA with decent majorities. Clinton really was very center focused. Biden got stuff done with slim margins and had prevented back sliding and gotten republicans to blink while in control of the house.

Chips and recovery acts have been great. Doing best court will allow on student loan debt.

Judges he trails in effectiveness due to all the Riggage before he got in. After Dobbs they should have gone hard to get Sotomayer to retire. With 24 senate map and possibility of Trump II, we could be looking at 4 very long term MAGA judges.

Anyhow I don’t get all the hate. The gaffes aren’t even age for him. It’s just Joe.

[clovis8]

Those people don’t watch debates.