Right I’m just saying personally, I felt responsible in Philly so I called the mayor’s office when the cops gassed peaceful protesters, spoke out on social media against the Philly police, donated to a bail fund, etc… I don’t know where the line is on offsetting my taxes going to cops, but at least I wanted to make some impact back in the right direction.
I think that’s a good way to think about trying to lessen our negative impacts. Obviously also voting accordingly in local primaries.
I agree with this. There’s a share of blame to everyone for doing these things. To allocate a much larger share of the blame on low rank military personal or policeman is in a way doing just what you mentioned. Cleansing yourself.
Side note but is your son able to return to Israel ever or will he still have to serve? My Korean friend can’t return to Korea until he is a certain age because he’d be drafted despite having lived in Australia since he was a kid.
In the off chance we manage to stay abroad, he can visit but he will have to do some sort of shortened military service if he moves back after he’s 18.
She joined the army.
I think they do have significantly more responsibility for the actions of the military and the police. It’s still just their small contribution, but imo, it’s a lot more than someone who doesn’t join up.
Do you think all federal employees have more responsibility for the Iraqi war than you?
Not trying to gotcha, as your opinion is obviously valid, i’m just not sure how the responsibility is divided in your view.
Fml for my Ashkenazi roots. Kidding aside, it’s not super easy and pretty expansive process for those who might be eligible.
Everyone in America owns it a little but the head of Raytheon owns more than someone scraping by just trying to keep their head afloat. Same goes for someone who joins to go kill Muslims compared to someone taking what they see as their only option out of poverty.
Here’s something. I don’t think people who join the police/army/catholic church/unstuck etc. have prima facie direct responsibility for what other members do. I think what other members have done and one could reasonably expect that they would do should have been a consideration in joining, and should be a constant consideration in the decision to not leave, but I don’t think that’s quite the same thing.
I think we all probably agree about that too, though.
There’s also the naïve but necessary question of do we (you?) need an army. I think microbet has a different view of the desired role of the state than most and his answer could very well be a resounding no. I’m not sure what’s the right answer. But if your answer is that an army is needed, it’s a bit unfair to judge people for the mere act of joining.
Maybe. I don’t think it’s important, interesting, or required to rank and order all gradations of responsibility to have the position that there is responsibility.
But, not really. I don’t think working for the department of education adds any culpability for US wars.
It could. It’s a judgement call imo. I think working for the German government by choice in 1939 would have been immoral. But it’s about choices. It’s not like Canada or anywhere else is perfect. I don’t think the entire US govt should be, say, defunded.
I think I’m 1/8th Sephardic, the rest Ashkenazi, but not 100% sure.
Why? I’ll admit I don’t have first hand knowledge of what is taught in public education, but if it’s anything like Israel, the US department of education very much have some responsibility for a lot of the flawed doctrines that enable the US wars.
This is even ignoring the fact that both the guy in the department of education and the US Army are getting paid, afaik, by the same company.
In another mediocre analogy, does working in a coal mine makes you more responsible for global warming than just a dude who owns a non electric car?
We all have a responsibility and it is sometimes too easy to shift it more towards those who aren’t us.
Put me down for yes we need an army if we’re having that discussion. Smaller, more reserves and less active, and more of a defensive posture. But we need one.
I assume about 90% of the forum would agree on that.
Yeah this was phrased particularly badly by whoever coined it.
I mean, no one’s culpable for that apart from the policy makers and senior brass in the military (and the MIC).
But that’s not to say that individual enlisters should feel good about being an integral part of an organisation that commits atrocities, and neither should they feel good about promoting a positive image of it while brushing the unjustified masscares and human rights abuses under the carpet.
That’s almost a good analogy but although police brutality is the de facto policy in a lot of places it’s not actually literally official police policy (I think).
Another attempt might be did staying in apartheid era South Africa as a white person with opportunities to emigrate make someone culpable for the disenfranchisement of 90% of the population and the human rights abuses?
Probably not imo, but yes they should have fucking left instead of supporting that system, or at least not promoted a misleading positive image of it to others.
Probably less imo, but not sure and maybe it depends.
I think the education thing is pretty clear.
But anyway, how long must this go on? Are we disagreeing about the general point? Do you think I’m trying to say that only people in the army are responsible for war?
You should have written them a strongly worded letter.
I got time, i mostly work on euro time zone so it’s up to you.
I’m not entirely sure what the general point is. Mine is that people who join the army aren’t more guilty by definition. They might be and there’s probably a decent correlation between the two, but it isn’t baked in by enlisting imo. I think yours is that they are more responsible, so yeah, we disagree on that.
By no means does that make anyone in the army a hero. Some might be courageous, but that’s a different thing. Nor do they should be thanked for their service any more than any other job.