Christiania is a bullshit place. Weed and a ban on running. Whoopee.
It’s as anarchist as I am rich.
I think there’s a lot to the small community (Dunbar’s Number) and the best organization is affiliations/coalitions/confederations of independent small groups - even in large cities. Murray Bookchin, the writer most inflential on the Rojava Revolution, didn’t necessarily think organization would stem from quite so small groups, but sometimes, and what he called municipalism.
And Rojava is maybe 1/3rd collectivized and the Spanish Anarchist Revolution was pretty fucked up within year by the communists.
Moreover, the democratic spirit of the militias made them breeding-grounds for revolutionary ideas. The Communists were well aware of this, and inveighed ceaselessly and bitterly against the P.O.U.M. and Anarchist principle of equal pay for all ranks. A general ‘bourgeoisification’, a deliberate destruction of the equalitarian spirit of the first few months of the revolution, was taking place. All happened so swiftly that people making successive visits to Spain at intervals of a few months have declared that they seemed scarcely to be visiting the same country; what had seemed on the surface and for a brief instant to be a workers’ State was changing before one’s eyes into an ordinary bourgeois republic with the normal division into rich and poor. By the autumn of 1937 the ‘Socialist’ Negrín was declaring in public speeches that ‘we respect private property’, and members of the Cortes who at the beginning of the war had had to fly the country because of their suspected Fascist sympathies were returning to Spain.
But besides all this there was the startling change in the social atmosphere — a thing difficult to conceive unless you have actually experienced it. When I first reached Barcelona I had thought it a town where class distinctions and great differences of wealth hardly existed. Certainly that was what it looked like. ‘Smart’ clothes were an abnormality, nobody cringed or took tips, waiters and flower-women and bootblacks looked you in the eye and called you ‘comrade’. I had not grasped that this was mainly a mixture of hope and camouflage. The working class believed in a revolution that had been begun but never consolidated, and the bourgeoisie were scared and temporarily disguising themselves as workers. In the first months of revolution there must have been many thousands of people who deliberately put on overalls and shouted revolutionary slogans as a way of saving their skins. Now things were returning to normal. The smart restaurants and hotels were full of rich people wolfing expensive meals, while for the working-class population food-prices had jumped enormously without any corresponding rise in wages. Apart from the expensiveness of everything, there were recurrent shortages of this and that, which, of course, always hit the poor rather than the rich.
1 Like
And onto regions, as in revolutionary Spain and Rojava. In Spain, the plan was to ‘hive off’ autonomous departments from large business enterprises to get the numbers down in each group… a plan stillborn as the fascists won the civil war.
The takeaway point here, without wandering off into the weeds of horizonal theory, is this…
- There is such theory, and practice, and history, and contemporary activism that could be discussed here on UnStuck. And it has absolutely nothing to do with the “racist anarchists”, or the ACers, or folks who “just want to destroy and burn it all down”, or Anarchy brand sun-glasses, or burning man, or small communes being all kumbaya, or pedophiles because ZOMG the shitty old Anarchy Magazine.
1 Like
The guy who only speaks in gibberish is accusing another poster of speaking in gibberish
Checks out
1 Like
Pretty easy to parse Sabos posts maybe you’re just dumber than you think
3 Likes
Yea that’s totally not gibberish
1 Like
More libertarians vs. bears reading.
Go bears!
1 Like
lol you whine so much about his posts. here I’ll dumb it down for you since you have a hard time reading, because a group self identifies as something doesn’t mean that’s what they are. If Trump self identified as a communist would you believe that too just because he says he is?
3 Likes
you’ve already posted the pic of yourself a couple of times not sure what it has to do with this convo
lol calling me a confrontational douche when you came in here to call sabo a “person who posts gibberish”
how about you just go to your safe space thread if youre going to whine about sabo everytime he posts or better yet put him on ignore douchebag
Of course, you’re ignoring his original confrontational post that I was responding to. Even I think you’re not this dense. Fuck off. Douche.
lol you really are a clown
If i came in here saying north korea is democratic that shit would be gibberish, which is what suzzer was doing yesterday
Gibberish - Noun
Unintelligible or meaningless speech or writing, nonsense
What you just posted is not an example of gibberish, it is an example of an inaccurate statement. Like, if I were to say you were an intelligent person - that also would not be gibberish, it would just be a mistaken/wrong statement.
1 Like
Don’t put words in my mouth and don’t suck me into this nonsense. I said it seems to me like small communes can work, probably maximize human happiness, and whatever philosophy you start with they probably end up looking kinda similar - a balance between individual freedom and collectivism.
I assume you’re getting hung up on words with anarch, libert, or commun in them - which of course is completely missing the point. Yeah I have my doubts those can work on large scale - like 99.99% of the rest of the world. Don’t pretend I’m the one making outlandish claims.
10 million population cities for everyone or bust.
Yeah I mean what a dick I was saying small communes can work and maximize human happiness. Clearly I needed a talking to.
First, we have made quite a bit of progress the last few rounds around here.
We seem to have left the “racist anarchists”, the ACers, those who “just want to destroy and burn it all down”, Woodstock, the sunglass collectors and pedophiles behind, and in general getting hung up on words with “anarch”.
That was all gibberish, which it seems we can all agree to now… finally. Good work UnStuckers !!!1!
But… we’re still hung up with “small communes”. Or, in general, questions of scaling. Once again, we have real world historical and contemporaneous examples (revolutionary Spain, Rojava). We are talking about millions of people for several years.
So sure… somebody who has examined the details of what happened in revolutionary Spain, somebody who has examined the details of what is happening in Rojava, could have an educated opinion regarding how they dealt with/are dealing with scaling issues.
However, somebody who up until very recently thought we were talking about folks who “just want to destroy and burn it all down”… and hasn’t even imagined that that those in Spain back in the day, or those in Rojava today, are even aware of scaling issues… and certainly couldn’t critique how those issues were and are confronted…
Well, that person isn’t going to have an educated opinion regarding revolutionary Spain, Rojava, theory, practice, or history of scaling. Instead we’re going to get words of wisdom like: “Uh, I think Rojava was always doomed to failure because my 8th time at Burning Man was a bummer.”
5 Likes
Yeah, like Christiana isn’t a great example either. It, and places like Slab City, are certainly interesting, but the self-selection involved in being in a place like that is different than just wanting to be part of a complete horizontal community/society.