There’s also a pretty lol-tastical feedback loop here…
Liberal: Everyone needs to vote for the LCD Donkey… because otherwise it’s end of times.
Liberal: Everyone voted for the LCD Donkey… therefore whatever LCD policies the Donkeys spew is what everyone wants.
The movement in Portland is overwhelmingly popular.
"Around 70% of those surveyed said they hadn’t participated in any protests since June and another near 70% said they didn’t have a close friend or relative who works in law enforcement. The majority of participants said they approved of demonstrations in the city, with 92% supporting “non-violent protests” and 67% in favor of what was described as “these protests.”
Yeah that’s kind of my point. The movement that started about BLM somehow has its longest sustained protest carried out by mostly white protesters in one of the whitest and most liberal major cities in the country. The same pool of mostly white antifa protesters that were clashing with Proud Boys and Patriot Prayer a while back. Going back to the WTO anarchists protests I’d bet it’s a lot of the same crew.
I feel like they’re just doing what they’ve done for a long time, but slapping a BLM label on it for now.
Someone like Sabo to me is a good example. I’m sure he truly believes a Marxist revolution will be the best thing for black people. But still, for him it’s mostly about the revolution. Ending police brutality is just one expected outcome of the revolution he wants.
For the vast majority of the BLM protesters nationwide - it’s 100% about ending police brutality and zero % about any kind of revolution. I feel like this thread should be about what the vast majority of BLM protesters want - and not every pragmatic solution met with “just abolish the police, it’s that simple” - which is my main point. We already have a thread just for abolishing the police.
It’s frustrating not to be able to suggest what I see as real potential solutions (like sane gun laws) w/o having to argue whether the police should even exist - every single time.
It’s definitely a trust issue from everything I’ve read. Black people watched Biden play second banana to Obama for 8 years. Black people trusted Bill Clinton apparently enough to extend it to HRC.
Besides being gibberish, this is just incredibly rude. Why are you speculating about my internal thought processes? Why are you accusing me of bad faith? It’s just as rude X doing something Y would rather she not, and Y responding by whining that X is “throwing a tantrum”. Here at UnStuck, where we are strangers on the interwebs, there is never any reason to speculate about other’s internal mental states.
This is the second unprovoked, off topic, and gratuitous personnal attack you’ve made upon me in the last two days.
I’m going to as you politely: stop doing this.
Rochester has had huge protests everyday for over a week.
You’re better than this post.
When I first read this sentence I didn’t parse “center-left” and was absolutely certain you were talking about abolitionists here. My proposal is that the functions of police be reduced, one at a time, and replaced by specialist agencies not armed with guns. The abolitionist proposal is that we completely overhaul the social and governmental structure of the United States, as a step one of doing anything about out of control police. I’m kind of speechless about which side you think is demanding “a holistic framework covering all human activity” here lol.
This is just stupidity. All the white people you organize with are leftists as well. This has everything to do with the sort of people you mix with and nothing to do with what Black people in general want.
This is also true of white politicians vs white “intellectuals and activists” and reflects the fact that “intellectuals and activists” are 1) iconoclasts by nature, that’s the job and 2) that leftists define “intellectual” ideologically. For example, Sam Harris is a public intellectual by any reasonable definition, but if I say so, you will have a conniption, because you disallow that description for anyone who doesn’t share your politics.
It’s amazing to watch people sit here and argue that their echo chambers are reality and the way people actually vote in real life is some sort of mirage. No self awareness whatsoever.
To the liberals, life is like ordering off a menu. They’d like a bowl of capitalism, not to spicy so leave out the slavery and sharecropping… and for sure they want to hold all of the r-word-ism.
They want it that way. Unfortunately for them, it’s the other.
As J.Muir said, in a different context: “When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the universe”. And as M.King said in exactly this context: “We must see now that the evils of racism, economic exploitation and militarism are all tied together… you can’t really get rid of one without getting rid of the others”.
The takeaway is, of course, this part: you can’t really get rid of one without getting rid of the others.
And it’s not just r-word-ism, capitalism, and war mongering that are different faces of the same demon. Another good example is environmental justice.
Environmental activists are, in fact, a demographic that contains a lot of relatively privileged white folk. Environmental justice activists are constantly hearing the same kinda screed that some of the liberals are spewing ITT. Such as (and to write a little fan fiction)…
These white big city limousine liberals don’t really care about the poc folk who live near the petrochemical plants. They’re only interested in the fairy darters and turtles and enjoying their hikes. They don’t care about working poc folk. They’d shut down all the jobs if we let them. These white coastal elite dandies are nothing but outside agitators !!!1!
Of course, and just like BLM, if we examine how actual environmental justice activists see things, we get a different pix. Here is how activist E.Yeampierre phrased things…
For us, as part of the climate justice movement, to separate those things is impossible. The truth is that the climate justice movement, people of color, indigenous people, have always worked multi-dimensionally because we have to be able to fight on so many different planes.
When I first came into this work, I was fighting police brutality at the Puerto Rican Legal Defense Fund. We were fighting for racial justice. We were in our 20s and this is how we started. It was only a few years after that I realized that if we couldn’t breathe, we couldn’t fight for justice and that’s how I got into the environmental justice movement. For us, there is no distinction between one and the other.
Notice the exact same takeaway points as M.King above…“to separate those things is impossible… For us, there is no distinction between one and the other”
So you believe that Black people are too stupid to know who to vote for, and Suzzer is too stupid to know that most Black people are secret Marxists?
Basically all the successful progressive movements in history have had coherent limited goals (the labor movement, civil rights, women’s suffrage and feminism more broadly, even MeToo more recently). These have certainly not all been “polite”, nor to my knowledge is anyone ITT calling for more polite action now. The history of “burn it all down” totalizing leftist movements is almost universally failure or disaster.
Portland has been protesting for 110 nights to disband the police (I think). The participants are largely white.
Rochester has been protesting for 10 nights over Daniel Prude’s death. The participants are largely minorities.
Speakers read the names of others who have died during or after police encounters in Rochester over the years and advocated for “Daniel’s Law” which would create a mental health task force consisting of medical personnel specialized in aiding the de-escalation of mental hygiene arrests.
I see a demand for legislation that could very realistically be enacted and might actually help people in short order. I also see calls to defund the police - which most of us agree is a good idea (even if the level of defunding is vague). I don’t see a call to completely disband the police or other pie-in-the-sky stuff that’s never been tried.
Maybe we should listen to what the actual protesters in places outside Portland want.
March on Selma just gets about a million times more History Channelling than Rochester Riots, Harlem Riots, Philadelphia Riots, Watts Riots, Newark Riots, Chicago Riots, and Washington DC Riots which all lead up to the 1968 Civil Rights Act.
(159 Race Riots in the summer of 1967)
You see what the fucking news shows you.
But not like you, clever people. You know it is all a lie.
You sound exactly like Chiefsplanet yelling “fake news!” at any story they don’t like - not even bothering to refute it or even acknowledge what’s in the story.
https://twitter.com/WHEC_Moussignac/status/1304581367708217346
Here’s a head of the protest calling for Daniel’s Law. Is this a deep fake?
This is exactly what ChrisV was talking about - real progressive, detailed proposals, that their promoters are more than happy to discuss in depth to anyone who will listen.
This woman doesn’t seem to think pushing for legislation is futile. She is not low-info. I tend to respect her opinion.
Sure? I’ve never said violent protest is not an effective tool. I know I’m massively simplifying here but the primary goal of the Civil Rights movement was desegregation and the equality of the races in governance at least in explicit terms. Those goals were achieved. Obviously I’m not saying “and everything has been great ever since” but it’s always possible to compare the world to a utopian vision which doesn’t exist and find it wanting. The lesson from history here doesn’t seem to me to be “no progress is possible except as part of a total overhaul of social and economic organization”.
The other thing to keep in mind is that I’m talking about primary voters - who presumably are a notch above general election voters on the political info knowledge scale. They have strong political opinions. You can’t just discount that as - well they’re voting on name recognition or w/e imo.
That’s thirty seconds of a ten day protest(taken out of context). There’s nothing to refute.
LMAO, how about we abolish the Tone Police first?
Last time when you were spewing regarding me it was a whole lotta crap about how I was a degren who was going to make a habit of going just up to some imaginary line as a goof and just needed to be banned ASAP.
Which was lol-tasticakl gibberoish as I was doing nothing of the sort. And in fact I was doing nothing at all. Period.
So you pretty much shot your credibility. Fuck off.
Oh wait… I’ll dunk on you a little bit first. WTF is “tone poicing” about calling out a fool making shit up and being incredibly rude about it. It’s like you aren’t aware how peeps use that phrase. You are like this…