Yeah I loved fly, but admit that he went way over the line too often. I never understood why he attacked micro so frequently. It was like he jumped to a conclusion about micro (which was wrong) when micro first started posting in politics, and then he never changed his mind about him for some weird reason.
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He did that to me too, to a much lesser degree. But he said a lot of things to people I wanted to say. So I just took the good with the bad and tried not to interact with him.
But this isnāt a āfly going too farā situation, this has gone on way too long and if it causes losing one of the most prolific and most hearted posters - then to me itās obvious that some basic rules need to be addressed.
This place will not survive in its current state and it wonāt survive without a no personal attacks rule. I mean really what is the argument for them? Do we need vitriol here? Do we need that kind of negativity? What good does it bring?
If i were a casual observer asking myself if i wanted to be part of this community, and I read the posts lately Iād say fuck no. I dont even show this site to people anymore because Iām embarrassed sometimes.
Like ffs people just get along and if you cant get along fuck off. If that principle fails, we need some ground rules. Yea I know there are already ārulesā but those are only as good as they are enforced.
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Hopefully sooner.
But whenever it is, please just certain people on ignore and move on. Your posting is too good to get hyper-involved with petty back-and-forths (even if youāre right).
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He did the same with lots of people. And he and dvault and others all thought it was more important to be the serious adults that couldnāt help shitting one anything that wasnāt in line with the acela corridor shit they professed to abhor. Itās no surprise that he was a fancy watch collecting, fratboy, attorney. Big phoney.
I think they stopped posting because their history of attacks on the left was embarrassing.
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So people just have to be more clever and couch and hide their personal attacks with content and misdirections.
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I donāt think this can work, but I think a āone personal attackā rule might. So if you think Iām an asshole, or insincere or whatever, you can say it ā once. After that, you get modded if people complain. You canāt say you werenāt allowed say it, but you also donāt get to shit up threads or even whole boards saying it over and over again.
Thoughts (not just you)?
This might work but I think having to become a mod is too harsh a punishment for violating it. Maybe on the fourth or fifth time.
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Thanks. Iāll start cleaning up what I can wrt my identity in my posts over the next couple days and pick a new sn and let you know. I think this will solve my issues with regard to my identity and the account, so thatās good enough on that front.
This is very smart and will be my practice going forward.
Yeah it seems like the identity thing is going to get worked out so this account can stay with a new sn and thatās fine and people can say whatever.
How much I do or donāt post goes way beyond all this. I do need to spend less time here regardless, but thatās my own separate issue for happiness, productivity, etc.
Thatās part of why Iām saying donāt make the rule change for me, do it or donāt because itās what people want. I may end up not posting much anyway, and while the environment here factors in a bit, I want to cut way way back anyway.
I may have made the two things sound more linked in my post than they are in my mind, I went into that in the long farewell post I decided not to post.
Iāve never been a big proponent of blocking people for a number of reasons that are mostly stupid but it is what it is. I think I had one person here blocked before this. Going to have to change that, which for me is easier the less I post. If Iām not right in the discussion, missing some posts seems less critical.
I agree with this, and I think Iām completely irrelevant to that. There will always be beef on Internet forums and if there are basically no limits, itāll turn into a race to the bottom and thatāll shrink the forum.
That was about the delay we have on making accounts anonymous, but it looks like Iāll just pick a new sn in the next couple days.
Thanks, I think Iām just going to try to be more behind the scenes and have discussions via PM unless I feel like something really needs to be said that hasnāt. Thatās what I was going to do on a new account anyway.
Iām reading theathletic.com right now and for their comments, they have a very simple code of conduct.
Weāve tried to ratify expansive, fully-formed rule sets trying to account for everything. I say we start small. Ratify something along the lines of these four rules as the bare bones of forum rules, the very basics that we can all agree on. Then push for amendments to clarify, especially as edge cases come up and get litigated in threads. Empower the mods to use their own judgment, with a process for appealing to the general membership. As we establish precedent, the freedom of mods is hemmed in by what has gone before.
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The bottom line is we need to let mods be mods and use their judgement. (Even though Iām as guilty or worse than anyone when it comes to arguing about mod actions.)
Iāll also admit that I thought there were many unfair attacks on cuse over a long period of time and I didnāt say anything because I didnāt want to stir up any more shit with jal and get accused of being a secret lover or gimmick account or whatever other fantasy he comes up with when he disagrees with somebody.
Also, jal should have taken a temp for attacking wookie the other day.
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I believe in the division of labor in society over rugged individualism, so I prefer delegating moderation duties to mods, with the community giving direction and functioning as an appeals court.
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I donāt recall many personal attacks from DVaut. Am I wrong?
Keep repeating it, but even before this, this entire episode started with a post where he takes a loaded and personal shot at sky. Itās easy in hindsight to say that it should have been stopped there, but at the same time given how quickly stuff escalated, it may be necessary to take an aggressive approach with moderating dick-bait like that.
Be considerate if a poster or posters ask you to tone it down or knock it off. You donāt have to agree with why theyāre asking. And ask others to show the same consideration to you.
If the person refuses, the poster can appeal to a moderator or the community. The resolution may be for you to put the poster on ignore and let the moderators moderate the poster if they continue assaulting you or other posters.
We may also see that the toxic behavior disappears as soon as those two people stop interacting. That doesnāt always happen, because one or both parties compulsively engage in these kinds of discussions. Moderators at that point are just putting out fires instead of getting arsonists to stop pouring gasoline on shit.
Again, if it is just one person pouring gasoline, thatās not going to stop just because anyone puts that person on ignore. Some people canāt help themselves. They fight with anyone who will pick up the other end of the rope. Let that person reveal themselves if thatās who they are. We can decide then as a community what to do.
Eg imagine if I blasted goofy. We get into it every day, probably because Iām jealous of his avatar. He tells me stfu. I tell him stfu. We argue and argue. Heās well-mannered but Iām increasingly hostile toward him, and heās starting to lose it.
Instead of continuing to argue, he puts me on ignore.
If I keep blasting him or turn my fire to someone else, goofy and anyone else putting me on ignore has made this a super easy decision for the community.
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I like the idea of a dial it down rule. Maybe with a plus 1 needed.
I.e. if someone asks you to chill out, thats seconded by someone else, then you need to dial it down.
Keeps it being mostly self managed.
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Iāve sort of lost the plot here as to why cuse is leaving. He was asked to tone it down, refused (because he doesnāt want to allow an insult to go unchallenged), and so was temp banned. @anon38180840 you are leaving because you think everything went down as it should except for the temp ban?
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I took a crack at a proposal which could, imo, be beneficial for our community when weāre dealing with situations like these. Please take a look and respond if you feel so inclined.
He seems to feel vulnerable due to having a screen name that can be linked to his real world identity, in a community where he no longer trusts everyone.
Heās cited concerns about people Googling him five years from now, so maybe he is worried that the woman of his dreams breaks up with him upon discovering that he was once labeled a perv on some insignificant internet forum. I dunno. It seems silly to me.
I donāt think thatās it. He mentioned being enraged at being temp banned. Doxxing himself is a reason to start a new account that everyone knows is him. It isnāt a reason to leave.
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