The place that you wanted this to be will never exist anywhere. Well, possibly as some sort of private, wonky email list that you would probably never be invited to join, but not as some public forum that anyone can join. Maybe you had this idea that could be a stepping stone to actual work in politics, but this was never going to be a command post in the resistance.
It’s a false dichotomy that the choice is between high-level discourse and a place for fun. Many of the posters capable of high-level discourse also want to be able to unleash some snark on occasion. But it also takes some work. You can’t create a safe space for high-minded discussion and expect it to blossom. People who want to have those debates need to take the initiative in starting those discussions and fighting for them. And, yes, that means, the thankless job of taking on the trolls. And that means making the effort of trying to understand people who disagree with you as rational people with access to the same information who nevertheless draw different conclusions.
I’d like more discussion on political philosophy and theory and less on policy and current events, but I know that’s not happening on a regular basis. I take what I can get from this forum.
For those who want a higher level of discourse, I challenge you to start new threads that are homes to more productive conversations instead of cramming everything into megathreads. I don’t think I’ve really weighed in strongly on all of this meta-conversation, but a part of me basically feels like “fuck you all”. You spend your time whining about bad posting and bad moderating. My instinct in your place would be to start new threads with good posting out of spite. If you want this place to be better, then show what a better place can look like and damn the trolls. Whatever sort of moderation you clamor for isn’t going to make good posting appear. Be the change you want to see in this forum.
I think Wookie explained it well. We’re trying to solve a real problem here; that problem being “Does the c-word make enough people feel uncomfortable and unwelcome here that we should ban it?” Abstracting it out to hypotheticals that will never happen like “What if I find the word ‘cuddly’ offensive and I’m the only person in the world who does?” does not help us solve that problem.
This whole situation reminds me so much of the religious forum on 2p2 including the high content stuff.
Everyone would ask for a no insult rule, ask for their rivals to be banned, complain about low content posters or what they see as bad posters who disrupt their high content.
New rules and bans never really worked long run. Insults move under the covers but are still there if you look hard enough. Bans would slow down complaints for a bit until new “bad” posters and new rivalries came along. The people wanting high content instead of engaging in it would still complain they cant with all the clutter when really just engaging in it and scrolling by the clutter is all they needed to do.
Not sure what im trying to say its just interesting how similar this all is. Probably because they were both smallish groups of people who are talking about heated subjects.
Talking about politics is more fun with people who care enough to get mad sometimes instead of talking with people who never get heated because they are more concerned with showing off how clever they think they are.
Hmm… not sure if that is meant for me or you are just talking generally but someone had a similar criticism of me on 2p2. If its what i think it might be well done on posting here.
To be honest, I can’t remember the terms I stated, but if an arbiter said I should pay, I would have paid. I might shoot the odd angle, but I’m not a welcher.
This only gets us into an unfalsifiable debate about whether there’s an arbiter you would honor and respect. If you can’t be arsed to look back and see what you said and determine if you would honor it, why should anyone take your word seriously, especially when you’ve broken your word so lightly and obviously today? Your words obviously mean little to you, so you should not be surprised when they mean nothing to anyone else.
I can’t be arsed because it wasn’t booked. If it had been booked I’d look, obviously. Why do you insist on trolling me when I’m trying to make peace?
Just to go back to this a sec. Maybe “devil’s advocate” is not the right term, but I don’t think “sincerely held belief” is the right term either. What do you call it when you make an argument to advocate a position, but have no personal interest in whether your argument succeeds or not? Lawyering?
If it’s lawyering, who hired you to represent the ■■■■■■■■ position, because I’d like them to know that their suit is dismissed with prejudice on the grounds that their attorney is making farcical and self-contradictory arguments?
There was explicitly an option in the OP for the “I don’t actually give a shit” position, and “Dominate the thread with inane bullshit” was not it.
Aren‘t you the poster who revels in trolling people on 2+2? Because your posting here resembles said trolling and it‘s hard for me to accept that no, this time you are totally doing it with the best intentions.