About Moderation (old original thread)

About Unstuck
451

I’m sure that not everyone who you would want to vote in this poll has been following forum drama closely, so they can’t be expected to be familiar with all sides. Heck, I follow it closely and I see things mentioned that I either forgot or never knew.

I think any aggrieved party should be allowed one post to sum up their position, a sort of amicus curiae brief, and I strongly recommend that such a post be required to cite posts to back up claims. If you want to call someone a liar, you had better be linking or quoting a post containing a lie.

452

I agree that the response to commonwealth pulling the same stunt as you had wildly different responses but I will also point out no mods threatened a perm ban and microbet (who may not have been a mod yet, don’t recall exact timelines) specifically said that regular users should never be perm banned without a community vote.

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453

That wouldn’t necessarily stop a malignant mod from pulling the lever and justifying it later.

454

None of the mods will be demodded by community vote and I don’t think it will be particularly close.

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455

At the moment that’s probably right but there is a visibly growing list of complaints about bias and abuses of power that presumably can’t keep growing forever.

456

Holy sweet mother of jesus, post or don’t post, stay or leave. It’s a random internet forum and yet we’re descending into civil unrest due to human rights violations? What in the world.

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457

It is unfortunate that the appearance of impropriety can’t be observed while making a best-effort towards keeping this place civil. It’s more unfortunate that toxic masculinity is preventing one of the founders of this board from behaving like someone who is a member of the community. The incapability of letting the slightest offense slide in an eye-for-an-eye poke fest is ruining the forum experience for more than one of our members, which is way too many.

Banning someone for talking about moderation in the moderation thread is an interesting choice.
Letting posters by-pass bans by creating new accounts negates any punitive effect temp-bans have, those posts should have been removed and the new account perm’d.
Stopping never ending arguments by temp bans and deleting posts is effective and sad, but sad that our members are leaving no other options.
It is always going to be difficult to get permission from the person causing problems to be disciplined. That is a challenge of community based modding that we are struggling with.

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458

It’s an apt comparison though. Internet forums are like microcosms of the real world which is why you see the same problems of privilege and bias repeated.

460

I hereby am letting go of my long-standing animosity towards a certain poster and will attempt to be entirely civil in future interactions. I can already feel a great weight being lifted from my shoulders.

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461

I originally requested a permaban on 12/1. There was pushback and talk of stricter modding. I was told there is a two week cooling off period.

I figured the stricter modding was all talk, but what the hell? I gave it a shot. A line was drawn, so I started flagging more posts, pointing out some attacks, etc. Most was allowed to stand, only a couple flags were confirmed.

Even as this blew up and a few people really crossed the line, most of the flags were ignored or rejected. Clearly the stricter modding was not happening, despite a community vote three weeks ago supporting it. So why should I expect this to be the time it’s actually gonna change? Fool me twice, thrice, or four times and I’m gonna get it through my head that it’s not going to change.

Jman makes one post after like two days being dragged and being slandered by false allegations. It’s calm, it’s all he intends to say about it, and he’s immediately banned.

A certain person has been childishly begging for that by throwing a series of fits, and this looks an awful lot like an attempt to appease him into letting it go. Because apparently whining and derailing numerous threads for weeks on end is exactly the type of behavior we should reward.

I point out the absurdity of that moderation decision in a thread About Moderation, and I get a ban for referencing other posters in the spat. Meanwhile the people who have been stirring this up every few weeks are getting exactly what they want and no repercussions.

Then today marty has to violate the new rule twice before he eats one, his first post names jman and me (old name), questions the modding of me by suggesting a perma (no shit, Sherlock, that’s what I’m going for), then relitigates his whining. No ban. Nice work @microbet you made it clear how this is going to go by letting that one slide and waiting for him to break it twice. And you posted in between the two in case there was any doubt.

Then jalfrezi gets away with breaking it and a thinly veiled inference that jman is a liar and a thinly veiled comment that I’ve lost respect here, and he gets to slide. And yeah I definitely have lost respect from the community, I acknowledge that, but that’s still jalfrezi litigating the situation and throwing a barb with a thinly veiled comment, and skating. Because he’s a good troll and he’s never going to stop and he has managed to avoid any real response from the community. Great job @microbet, all that hot air about hoping they earned a ban so you could prove how serious you were was clearly hollow within hours.

You draw a line and let him dance right to to it and poke his foot across, nothing. That makes it even more obvious how this is going to go in a couple weeks when the heat is off.

I’ve repeatedly said that the message this forum has been sending is that the true crime is responding to a personal attack, not launching one. That sends a message that most people here really don’t care one bit about anyone else here’s experience here or feelings about it. Actions speak louder than words.

Lots of “Don’t leave over this, we’d hate to lose you.” Very little effort to fix the issue. Like this is supposed to be a progressive community where people advocate for fixing problems and standing up for what’s right and justice. But when it’s a very easy to fix forum problem, it’s “Have you considered stoicism?”

Give me a fucking break. Imagine if we applied that logic to any of the real world issues we discuss lol…

Meanwhile you’ve got numerous very high quality regs posting less and reading less. Gee, I wonder why?

You’ve got one dude clogging up the most important thread on the site with misinformation on an almost daily basis, another guy causing rampant derails defending the virtue of using the c-word in an international community, and another guy who spends like 70% of his time here trolling and fighting while habitually launching completely false personal attacks about stuff from months/years ago. The community bends over backwards to avoid even the slightest moderation of these folks, and the site is worse off for it.

So high quality regs post less, the quality of the discourse goes down, thus the reward for tolerating the attacks goes down while the annoyance with the attacks goes up. And some people are surprised others have had enough?

I have spent immense amounts of time on this site. I thought this was a special community that gave a shit about each other, that wouldn’t tolerate certain things, that would protect the quality of the discourse and care about the experience of members - especially regs who have been here a while.

I was clearly wrong because I’m not seeing any of that. Meanwhile there is less good posting from good regs, which is the draw to this place for most people.

I pushed back on this situation and on the personal attacks and nothing changed. Over and over. So I’ve had enough, my choice is obviously to subject myself to it or leave. The fact that I am even facing that choice makes it a really easy one, because the inactions of this community have spoken volumes.

Permaban me.

Let’s go @moderators get on with it, or maybe @zikzak wants to do it.

462

Amazing. You have numerous regs here telling you you’re a valuable member of the community if only you could let some pitches go by and instead of trying to change your toxic behavior you continue to threaten to leave.

That’s unfortunate. I hope something can help you change and you come back.

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463

It is! That no one gives a shit about your petty grievance here says a lot more about you than the community.

Also why in the world do you need to be banned? Just stop posting.

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464

Jesus. Do you know what time it was in the USA when Marty was posting? I banned him at 4 something am when I got up to pee.

Anyway, one day ban for violating the no complaining about how you compared to them are treated. This is about ending this spat.

Also, as further punishment, I’ll never permaban you.

To the forum, as Clovis mentioned, I think this is something worth voting over. Without deciding who is wrong and who is right or who is more offensive or anything like that, should mods intervene in long running fueds?

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465

You literally posted after his first post and before his second, and after his second you made a comment about how that one clearly had to result in a ban - which indicates that you knew the first should have and let it slide.

This is a pointless discussion at this point, just permaban me and be done with it, this community is never fixing this problem, that’s blatantly obvious. I don’t wish to subject myself to this in perpetuity, it’s already been months. Permaban me, end this, and good luck to the community the next time jalfrezi/marty/churchill/fidget end up in a similar spot with some other poster.

466

Dude can you please just let it go. Like 90% of the community is on your side.

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467

I did it as fast as I could. Just like I’m doing now to you.

468

commonWealth,

I don’t think the mods should or will permaban you, at least not until you start doing things like posting horseporn.

It’s up to you to decide whether you want to continue to participate in the forum. I understand if you want to take a break. But ultimately I hope you come back because I think you make good contributions to the community.

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469

It’s not unknown for people throughout 2+2 history to leave or be banned and return later with a new name, so it all seems somewhat irrelevant.

470

As it turns out this is almost what’s happening. I don’t care at all about complaining about moderation. Please complain about it. I’m not going to restate my original “I’m going to ban you if” post, but the point about moderation was that both groups complaining about being modded differently was part of the fued, so I just said leave the others out of your post of you want to complain about modding.

Bad idea? Maybe.

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471

No, I’ve had a few people PM me and a few people post something like this. This is the whole point: asking me to tolerate this abuse because you’re on my side or my posting is generally good is offensive. People telling me they’re on my side but just put up with it, gee thanks, but you’re telling me to tolerate ongoing abuse. That’s offensive. So no, I won’t just let it go.

Right, people care if they don’t get to read my good posting, but they don’t care if I am having a bad experience due to ongoing abuse.

What you’re doing by refusing my request and temp banning me instead is disrespectful to me, just permaban my main account and respect my wishes. This community does not respect my experience here, and I do not wish to be a part of it. I was told the first time I asked I had to wait another two weeks. It’s been three. Respect my request and permaban me. Start a thread if you must, but just fucking get on with whatever you need to do to permaban me.

The community has made it crystal clear and reiterated it repeatedly. I should just accept the abuse and subject myself to it. No, fuck that, permaban me.

@moderators permaban @anon38180840
@zikzak permaban @anon38180840