Abolishing the Police

So here’s how I look at human organization:

Entities must be as big as the task they set out to do. Bigger task means bigger minimum viable organization. You can’t build a massive highway with two dudes, a wheel barrow, and a pickup truck.

As entities grow they get lower costs on inputs (often the way they get these reduced costs is pretty toxic and I could go on for ages about how to fix parts of that) but they also become slower and less efficient. Getting slower means that it takes more time and cost to make changes to how it does things, becoming less efficient means that the entities productivity per hour of human time consumed falls.

You want entities to be the right size for the task at hand. Too big and they might be too slow to even function or spend 500% of the necessary resources, too small and they can’t pull a big project off, and a right size entity that is specialized in doing the type of work at hand is usually the best option by a wide margin.

Notice that nowhere in that did I say that something had to be government or private enterprise. I don’t think that they are different through this lense. The next lense, which is equally important is public or private.

Public entities do not take profits, this is a major advantage even though this is partially offset by the absolute pillaging that happens anywhere a government entity interacts with a private party. They aren’t very sensitive to demand signals (if the service they are providing isn’t particularly necessary or in demand they aren’t trying to stop providing that service… in fact they are probably trying to figure out how to provide even more of the thing people don’t actually want) which can be a great thing in some situations where markets tend to fail (basic science R&D, public education, infrastructure as just a few examples) but is pretty bad at dealing with situations where private markets are functioning well. I’ve got dozens and dozens of examples of poorly operated state owned corporations over the last hundred years to demonstrate my point on this second point.

Real estate is not one problem. It is local, it is constantly changing, and every single piece of land is its own project. To say that it is easy to accidentally build too much or too little (the two most common government run errors) is a huge understatement. It’s a territory best operated by small entities, which is one of the good reasons to promote private homeownership in society. It’s the ultimate example of a small project that is best handled by small entities. This can mean small government entities or it can mean small private entities, but I suspect that after 20 years of either one most people would prefer the product that the private entities provide.

I look at real estate and I don’t see any glaring problems that aren’t mostly attributable to poor people being in a low or no leverage negotiation with people over where they are going to live. I don’t see anything unacceptable about the possibility that people might be evicted for non-payment, I see it as unacceptable that our people would be so poor that they couldn’t put a roof over their head. I don’t feel bad for people who bought a house they really couldn’t afford (I don’t feel bad for the bank taking the loss on the foreclosure either and I don’t think the people being evicted did anything morally wrong) who get evicted and have to live somewhere cheaper. I DO feel bad for poor people who are stuck in abusive relationships with awful landlords because they don’t have any other options. I just attribute that problem to poverty not evil landlords. To be sure some landlords are evil, but a better question for how to fix that is asking what kinds of situations attract these kinds of evil people and trying to eliminate those situations.

Bored, everyone ITF understands ROI’s, including and especially everyone on team #abolishlandlords.

If you could point out how my understanding of ROI’s leads to you believe that my post was in bad faith, go for it.

Well, if you say so, then it MUST be true. So true. Very true! Probably as accurate and true as this statement claiming that landlords are lolololol getting beat up on balance by their tenants:

Please inform the REIT’s. If they knew that landlords get beat up by tenants on balance they’ll promptly abandon their business model.

In my previous “trash” post, I pointed out where you were confusing cause with symptom. I will point out another example:

Why do you think the poor lack the resources to defend themselves? Could the cause in fact be that they are being exploited by their landlords, and the pay day lenders, and their employers, etc etc?

Team #abolishlandlords and #abolishthepolice are in favor of abolishing the systems of exploitation that result in poverty. You on the other hand(it seems) want to keep the landlord system in place, and hope it creates different results. Well, my friend, we’ve been running this software program called “capitalist landlording” for centuries and it continues to produce poor people exploited by their landlords. Seems to be a feature, not a bug.

fyp.

Turning a profit isn’t inherently evil. Landlords can get abused slightly on precedural stuff like evictions, damages, etc and the overall investment can still be profitable. And those REIT’s are targeting the top of the bottom 60% generally (they seem to love houses in the 100-150k range in the cities I’ve lived in) and are still pretty abusive.

It’s about money and the power cash gives those who have it over those who don’t. Ending landlords won’t end poverty. Look at countries that have public housing systems for the poor… they aren’t exactly launch pads out of poverty for the kids who live in them much less the adults.

Again the problem is poverty and the solution to poverty is money. You give poor people cold hard cash and the balance of power in dozens of relationships changes.

When I was poor my relationship with people who I borrowed money from was extremely predatory. I paid 10% in interest on a loan that existed for two months at one point. Now that I’m upper middle class I have dozens of lenders having a hunger games style competition for any money that I might possibly want to borrow… largely because I don’t need to borrow.

When I was poor my relationship with my employers was super toxic and they kept ~80% of what I produced. Now I have business partners, am self employed, and keep pretty close to 100% of what I produce.

When I was poor my relationship with landlords was toxic (although I still gave as good as I got… ‘first and last months rent’ style setups I generally just refused to pay the last months rent as standard procedure which worked extremely well and made it very hard to just steal my deposit) because I needed a place to live and places to live that I could afford weren’t very good. Now I live in a really nice house with a lousy ROI for my landlord (probably negative if the market turns because of COVID) and I’ll probably only move out to buy (which will probably be next year if the market turns because of COVID).

I’ve been poor, and I’ve been through every stage from abject poverty (my family lived with just a wood stove for heat in Maine for five years when I was growing up which was the best part of my childhood because it’s the only time we stayed anywhere longer than 20 months, all clothes were from Goodwill, and there wasn’t enough food to go around) to upper middle class. I’ve had bad experiences with cops, landlords AND my degree is in econ.

Having a market for housing is fine. What isn’t fine is having people live in abject poverty which makes it impossible for them to do anything but take what people offer them because the alternative is homelessness, starvation, etc.

Capitalism needs a major rework. It needs to start with having a floor that’s somewhere in the neighborhood of 25k in todays currency for a single person, and significantly more for families. Childcare needs to be free. Paid time off needs to be generous.

At the same time many of our major institutions need a total overhaul. We’re running 18th century code in the 21st century. It’s that or it can all fall down and we rebuild from rubble. A few like racism (which is absolutely an institution in the US) need to finally end.

Let’s see if landlords are still a huge problem when their tenants are financially stable. I suspect that they’ll suddenly improve their act considerably when confronted by these new empowered tenants.

We grew up similarly. My parents never made more than $15-25k combined as long as I was living in their home(on and off up until '99). We moved everything we had(not much) at least a dozen times before I graduated from high school. I was always the new kid. Ate a lot of oatmeal, wore a lot of clothes that didn’t fit right, etc.

We are the lucky ones. We escaped.

We could change the balance of power by abolishing landlords. And voila–we will have also identified where we are getting the cold hard cash to give to the poor…we stop giving landlords money for landlording.

Your plan appears to be: give cash to the poor without ending the system that the landlords designed specifically to siphon the money from the poor to the rich.

First, where are you getting that cash from?

Second, why do you think the cash won’t get hoovered up by the landlords if we keep running our system on their software?

This seems like a great argument for getting rid of the bosses and ending the capitalists’ profit-extracting work place. We can table that discussion for later.

Extorting profits from people’s basic need for shelter by threatening them with violence is evil. Full stop.

Not surprisingly, capitalist school economics teaches that when the landlords do it, it isn’t evil.
Just like christian school teaches that when god ordered genocides it wasn’t evil.
Just like the people educated in the king’s court know that when the king subjugates his people it isn’t evil.
Etc etc etc.

So your hope is that someday landlords will stop acting like assholes despite having acted like assholes since the day landlording was invented up until today? Spoiler Alert: Landlords remained assholes.

Alternatively we could empower the tenants by abolishing landlords. This would result in a 0% chance of landlords being a problem in the future.

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That is worth the read, thanks for sharing.

Some highlights:

Program saves money compared to police:
“With just over 2% of the Eugene and Springfield police departments’ annual budgets, CAHOOTS teams answered 17% of the department’s overall call volume. This has saved the city, on average, $8.5 million each year.”

Heart warming and non-hierarchical:
“CAHOOTS differs from other mental health partnerships with the police in important ways: Staff employ “unconditional positive regard,” a phrase from psychology that means complete support and acceptance for the people they encounter, and the organization is run as a “consensus collective,” rather than a hierarchy. Every employee’s voice carries equal weight.”

Aspirational:
“Our community stepped up to collaborate and create a network of support to solve a larger public safety crisis,” Cervantes said. “That’s something we can take beyond protest.”

“we’re literally seeing our own proof of concept of how we can take ownership of crisis ourselves, and have solutions,” he said. “We don’t have to view everyone as a threat.”

One time I called 911 for an ambulance because a homeless person had fallen and hit their head on the concrete. Police came and put them in handcuffs and threw them in the back.

That was in Eugene, but it was a tad more than 31 years ago, so I couldn’t have called CAHOOTS.

It’s a start…

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/durkan-proposes-20-million-in-cuts-to-seattle-police-as-part-of-proposal-to-balance-budget/

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Abolishing the police, one at a time:

One of my oldest friends resigned from the Minneapolis PD.

He was like a younger brother to me in college. Then I moved away and we lost touch for years. When we reconnected I found out he’d become a cop. Which really surprised me. Saw it as an opportunity to be someone in his life who had enough goodwill built up that I could speak my piece and he’d listen. I always expressed my opinions about how I felt about the war on drugs, racism within the department, the general role of police in society, etc. He’s not converted to team #abolishthepolice, but we’ve had some more good heart to heart conversations over the past month.

There’s obviously much more work to be done on this front, and bigger and more important challenges than just one cop quitting, but damn–I’m so happy he’s out.

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Just had an idea: rig cop guns to not fire unless their body camera is turned on.

Better idea make doing anything as a cop without your camera on a felony with a 5 year mandatory minimum. If your camera breaks you go right back to the station and get a new one. You see a bank robbery in progress you drive right on past it to go get your camera back. Cops are no longer legally allowed to testify, only their camera footage is admissible in court. Cases where the probable cause isn’t video recorded get thrown out. It’s on the cop to make sure he gets the footage.

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This is a great idea.

Fyp

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… a tsunami of domestic abuse. Seriously, maybe the safest thing would be to take their guns away, and make them do crosswalk safety patrol duty.

Huge plus one to this. If there’s one thing you can definitely takeaway from the Mexican drug war of the last 10-15 years it’s that criminals with police/military/Intel background are just the worst.

DEFUND THE POLICE has shot up the rankings to #2 on my progressive purity test.

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x-posting on microbet’s advice:

https://twitter.com/politicsofnv/status/1277355108083302401

They need to be replaced by community defense like the Zapatistas do. Government, mafia or otherwise, is always gangs and warlords. The only solution is for everyone to be part of the gang and no division between cop and civilian.

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Not only that but out of what I assume is the huge LA budget, any cuts have to immediately come from the rape/sexual assault unit lol, maybe we can start cuts with the military equipment and massive overtime first? Maybe cut the drug enforcement team first? nah, gotta be rapes

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