fingers crossed on my fyp
I wonder is she is single! What a catch!
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Hang on, you’re saying we shouldn’t run DSA candidates in purple states? But it would be so beneficial at negotiating for what we want to have no elected officials that agree even remotely with what we want.
If you want to still have capitalism, your cops are going to need to be able to do what they’ve been doing this last week. If you want to banish racism, you’re going to have to give all this up. To do anything about ny of this, you’re going to have to give up your magical faith in 218/50/whatev. Those are all facts. Sorry about that.
You’re football analogy is all whacked too. This is better…
Team capitalist is running around with their pants down and eight men on the field. All we got to do is not listen to the crazy coach who is telling us to do the victory-play.
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This feels more like “M4A is good but we can’t pass it yet but we can shift public policy to the left right now so let’s do it.” Tough analogy cause the existing healthcare system is probably better than the existing criminal justice system and policing, which is one hell of a sentence. But this is kind of like doing the ACA, but maybe with the public option.
The thing is, it’s progress and if/when it doesn’t work we’re all going to be just as mad again.
Yeah I mean there are a lot of people here who genuinely want zero police, they don’t want to abolish and replace, they just want to abolish. Others want to replace with something better, which is great in the utopian timeline where we can actually achieve that.
I think anyone watching social media at this point who’s not an asshole would take starting from scratch with a new model over what we’ve got, but I don’t know if people realize the litany of challenges that presents.
I mean even forget the politics, at this point it’d be like going to a mob boss and saying “We’ve decided your entire organization is out, we’re going to replace you with a non-violent cartel from Canada. Have a good weekend, see you at brunch Sunday?”
I’ve got pro police mobs of white men with bats roaming five blocks away this week. I’ve got white dudes with AR-15s walking around like they’re patrolling a war zone. Who wants to go tell them that we’re abolishing the police? Who wants to go tell the dude making 150K/yr living in the burbs who’s a registered Dem who votes party line and see how fast he becomes a Trumper?
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My ideas for reform on this issue are well left of the average Dem in Congress. I’m not saying give the cops more guns and also some manners and etiquette training.
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Yeah I don’t accept any of that as accurate.
You can get people out of the streets in a well-regulated capitalist system without having to crack skulls. Your narrative is effective to advance your views, but that doesn’t mean it’s 100% true.
Team Capitalist is more like 80% of Americans if not more. Some of us just want to make it a fair system with strong regulations and safety nets.
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Public opinion also does not move inexorably in one direction because that’s where the narrative is being directed. Often aggressive narratives in favor of unpopular ideas actually work against moving public opinion in the direction sought by its proponents.
Climate is the clearest example.
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I’m curious what the polling would be in the African-American community for abolishing democracy, property, and whatever other nonsense you’re hyperventilating over.
Maybe, but I highly doubt it. I think you can have nice things in an economic system that takes care of basic needs without going full-socialist.
I mean it’s not like AOC is out there calling for seizing the means. M4A, GND, jobs guarantees and/or expanded UI, $15/hr, etc.
You can have a capitalist system where everyone has their basic needs met and can choose whether to pursue a lot of wealth or not.
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The “abolish the police” crowd has got to come up with better answers than “read this 250 page tome”.
People aren’t going to do that. They need easily digestible bullet points.
If you can’t come up with a max 3 sentence answer for “what will stop people from running stop signs and red lights if there are no police?”, you’ve lost the argument for like 99% of the population.
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That’s literally what Joe Fucking Biden just gave a speech about, so it’s well within the Overton Window in June 2020.
I spent 45 minutes during lunch and read all the links gregorio posted with an open mind. Half of it was like “we don’t know yet what a world without police looks like, we just know we need them gone” and the other half was some form of community restorative justice.
I don’t want to demean or belittle people that are all aboard on this but I still have many unanswered questions and it left me more confused rather than less confused. It seems to me like an overly rosy, not fully fleshed out idea that has little to no chance of ever working in a real world scenario.
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It’s kind of like a swear jar. Every time you do a crime, you have to throw in another quarter.
Obviously I’m trolling. But it’s also not PocketChads’ or any other poster’s job on to do the work of educating the rest of us on their positions. I mean, they can if they want, but if they don’t want to that’s fine too.
Makes sense if you can play elite defense against Trump’s GOP. Reduces variance.
Really? Most likely the police were spread really thin and they called in other agencies to assist . It’s not always the bogey man in the closet.
I guess my point isn’t that we have to pick the farthest left position. My point is that the party should try actually being authentic. We are already losing badly now with this milquetoast strategy of “appealing to moderate voters”, running on electability and trying to nibble at the edges of the problems in society.
Literally everything has gotten worse my whole life and it is accelerating rapidly now. The courts are packed with bad MAGA judges at all levels, the Dems have wielded congress and the presidency at the same time for a grand total of 2 years in the last 26. And virtually nothing progressive has ever been accomplished.
It isn’t working. If our side is doomed to lose and accomplish nothing I would rather do it with our heads up, fighting for what we believe rather than literally caving on everything and moving farther and farther right just for the sake of power.
The system is the problem and it isn’t going to allow itself to be defeated from within by Hillary or Joe Biden even if those people wanted to do it, which they don’t.
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They’re realistic socialists.