What do you mean by organization in this context?
See my edit. I was thinking of Cooperative multi-family housing. And I mean organizing cooperatives.
When you say itâs more of a problem than the credit. Do you mean the organizing of cooperatives in relation to the permitting and construction or acquisition of the MFH? or the aspect of day-to-day, year-to-year operations of the cooperative?
My point is different.
As we calculated above, Landlords are renting, that implies a rate, which is orders of magnitude higher than our payday loan friends charge. Renting people instead having access to even for-profit mortgage level rates is a generational raising boon. The denial of such access, by red-lining, is one of T.Coates primary arguments for black reperations.
Give people access to credit, and we replace renters with freeholders. We donât want to âgrowâ the stock of rental units any more than we want to âgrowâ the stock of prison units. Instead we want to âgrowâ the stock of freeholdings by âshirkingâ the stock of rentals.
I mean the original organization. If you wanted to build a 20 unit cooperative I think the very hardest part would be finding 20 families that wanted to do it.
Housing coops are cool and all. Just like workers coops. Just like credit unions.
But the fact remains that they can never be revolutionary. The rent system can never be dismantled by buying our way out of it. The wage system can never be dismantled by working our way out of it. The credit system can never be dismantled by saving our way out of it. Thatâs not how things work. Our radical sisters are always wise, and why we donât always heed their actions and words is beyond meâŚ
The Masterâs Tools Will Never Dismantle the Masterâs House
â Audre Lorde (1979)
And weâll never be royals (royals)
It donât run in our blood
That kind of lux just ainât for us
We crave a different kind of buzz
â Lorde 2013
So the specific building you helped built would not have been built without you.
I donât care if you call yourself a capitalist or not. It doesnât matter if someone else could have done it. All that matters is that you specifically contributed in an essential way and it was done.
Wealth was created for everyone. Workers got paid a salary. Suppliers got paid for manufacturing goods. Architect and engineer got paid for services. Tenant got housing. You made (I assume) a profit for putting project together. Investors from bank funds / tax credits got return on their investment.
Really nothing wrong with that picture.
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Well there are 2 options.
Let government build housing blocks for everyone (people rent at cost). I have no problem with this idea it just hasnât worked out as well as hoped. Maybe it can be tweaked better.
Let private sector build and rents go to pay portion of profit markup.
For years I was personally fine living in a 600$/month dump and saving tons of money.
Girlfriend comes along and thatâs no longer acceptable. So the only apartment that made her happy was multiple times that $600/month cost. Only a private developer would have built what I live in now.
Landlord didnât point a gun at me and sucked wealth from me and terrorize with violence. I literally made an expensive choice and there is nothing wrong with that.
We need more affordable housing, thatâs for sure. I am not against that. Can there not be balance between private and public?
3rd option.
The guy in your picture profile uses his billions to build rental projects at cost to tenants. Heâs donating it all to his charity regardless. Maybe his ego can be convinced that affordable housing is a major need.
That could actually work somehow
I really think this is a derail. Some of this is true and some isnât. I owned some small apartment buildings. Separately I was a housing consultant. I did grant and tax credit applications. The tax credit stuff was not for new construction. For the grant stuff the âinvestorsâ were the people of the United States I guess. No one made a âprofitâ. I had a fee (which was set by government regulations). The âownersâ (more like guardians/caretakers - but referred to generally as âsponsorsâ were non-profit organizations. I was a consultant for two projects that got built - one was senior housing sponsored by a church and another was disabled housing sponsored by a housing non-profit.
Oh, as far as my âprofitâ went, the church actually short-changed me by a lot - 5 figures.
What magical spell do they have access to that others donât?
The Lorde quote reminds me of these from Assata Shakur(Tupacâs aunt iirc):
"No one is going to give you the education you need to overthrow them. Nobody is going to teach you your true history, teach you your true heroes, if they know that that knowledge will help set you free.â
"They call us bandits, yet every time most Black people pick up our paychecks we are being robbed. Every time we walk into a store in our neighborhood we are being held up. And every time we pay our rent the landlord sticks a gun into our ribs.â
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Which of these two formulas results in lower costs to the occupant?
- Construction + Maintenance costs = rent
- Construction + Maintenance costs + 30% profit to the Landlord = rent
Which of those 2 formulas actually gets housing built to the tune of millions needed every year? Yeah I agree if you can remove the middle man and provide housing at cost, as a renter I would love it! If I can buy cars at cost or a small profit to the car company and remove those dealerships I would totally be on board.
And its not 30% yearly return. Not even close. Net profit margin for builders is less than 10%. National average is 8%.
Both. One just has a rent seeker attached to it. Why is the rent seeking necessary? Workers doing the work get paid the same either way.
Yes, that is why we are here ITT, discussing abolishing Landlords. Not sure why youâve been carrying water for themâŚ
My friends who are Landlords(I call them slumlords to their faces, lol, been friends since college) make way more than 8% cash-on-cash returns. And they donât even live in the same time zone as their properties, let alone manage them.
Idea!!! I will ask them âHow much value has their Landlording has added to the lives and well being of your tenants?â
How many negative dollars will the answer be??? Trip report coming soon.
Removing landlords means housing doesnât get built. The answer âlet the government do itâ is intellectually lazy and trivial.
National builders make 8% net profit. Seems reasonable to me. They build hundreds of thousands every year, Iâll take those numbers as reflective of industry over friend anecdotes.
Sometimes a small niche is growing so rapidly and becoming so important that it cannot be ignored. Whether you choose to abbreviate it BFR, B2R, or choose from a host of other iterations, the âbuild-to-rentâ niche comprises only 5% of homes built
According to this source, 95% of housing is built for freeholders, not landlords. So you are at least 95% wrong fool. The truth is, at least 95% of the time, itâs exactly the oppositeâŚ
Removing freeholders means housing doesnât get built
How is this even slightly relevant. Letâs see⌠what if we were talking about renting cars, should we consider the profit margin of (a) the car rental companies, or (b) the car manufacturing companies? How fucking stupid is that?
Removing car rental companies means cars donât get built
Why not argue this gibberish while you are at it. A certain percentage, under 10% for housing, under 35% for cars, are originally used as rentals as built. If it makes sense for one⌠it makes sense for the other.
Man, thereâs a whole list of things that can be rented hereâŚ
- Without wedding cake rentals wedding cakes wouldnât be made.
- Without casket rentals caskets wouldnât be made.
- Without tire & wheel rentals tires & wheels wouldnât be made.
- Without solar panel rentals solar panels wouldnât be made.
- Without chicken rentals chickens wouldnât be husbanded.
- Without goat rentals goats wouldnât be husbanded.
- Without luggage rentals luggage wouldnât be made.
- Without designer formal wear rentals designer formal wear wouldnât be made.
- Without neighbors renting out garages garages wouldnât be built.
- Without garden space rentals plants wouldnât be grown.
- Without rental floral arrangements floral arrangements wouldnât be created,
- Without rental jewelry jewelry wouldnât be made.
- Without rental sports equipment sports equipment wouldnât be made.
OK, I got one more for you, it has to do with rental sexâŚ
Without pimps sex wouldnât happen.
