That’s fine. It’s good that not everyone feels the same way.
Then would you also accept the decision of someone unwilling to vote for one candidate on moral grounds even tho the alternative might produce worse results?
Blaming the palestenian “single issue voter”(which i guarantee they aren’t that and this is just an attempt to otherize them) seems crazy to me. They have a good point. We shouldn’t be genociding Palestenians and we shouldn’t support politicians that are going to support it.
They are just this cycle’s “bernie bros” that simpletons will blame for whatever bad happens this election cycle so that they can avoid painful introspection.
8 Likes
I mean yeah, I said in the beginning that I’ve been getting into huge arguments over it because it’s my personal belief that if you truly care about Palestinians in Gaza not voting for Harris is a strategic mistake since Trump is sure to be worse for them. But I have to respect them holding fast to their morals
I would, of course, allow myself the option to try and dissuade them, but I would ultimately accept that response from someone who has a clearly deontological reason for voting.
Living in this country, paying taxes is as much taking a part as voting is. Like not voting doesn’t somehow make you less culpable as a citizen for the actions of your country. If anything not choosing the lesser evil makes you more culpable
5 Likes
Now THIS is an interesting perspective and I don’t think it’s wrong
1 Like
You’re talking to a guy who doesn’t think Palestinians are human beings, and gleefully says so repeatedly. He thinks it’s racist to criticize Israel.
“If you don’t like it, move to Russia”
How many Palestinian children are doing actual bodily harm to Israeli women right now?
Withholding a vote from a candidate that is generally superior to their opponent but doesn’t hold some positions that are important to you only makes sense if you believe that the minuscule increase in odds you gift the inferior candidate by sitting out is outweighed by the minuscule chance that your preferred but flawed candidate/party will change their positions by losing your vote.
That is to say neither matters so do what feels good.
I think a utilitarian reason for withholding a vote seems silly, but I accept someone who withholds a vote for deontological reasons that make sense.
1 Like
Meh
1 Like
This whole debate is always confused by the idea that voting is the only or primary connection to democracy. It’s an idea that lets too many people off the hook of doing the real work. For example, I would have no issue if a person refused to vote blue for some issue as long as they were also putting in the hard work of moving that issue forward in other ways. Too often people act like voting is some magical once every 4 years thing the ends all their responsibility for their government. This problem seem especially heightened in the US.
2 Likes
This board is cannot define democracy as anything other than voting or working on an electoral campaign. Everything else is “tearing the system down.” You would think maybe one or two “political junkies” would have read anything about what democracy is and what are ways to build it, but no.
Literally the board says mutual aid means “giving up your life”, actual quote, and somehow means ripping the state off like a bandaid with no structure left underneath.
Economic democracy in a workplace? Word salad.
2 Likes
Name a recent administration that hasn’t “supported a genocide.” Not voting for Trump or Harris isn’t not supporting a genocide, it’s thinking you’re not making a choice, when in fact you are choosing Trump under who everything is going to be worse than under Harris. So those people aren’t being “strong” or “principled” they are being selfish. Let them know they are the good people doing nothing so evil can triumph.
Oh bullshit. Name a red administration in our lifetime that we wouldn’t have been better off as a nation if the blue team had won instead.
The problem with this logic is if there were never a threat of blue losing there would only be red parties.
Saying “fuck you” to a corrupt system is not the same thing as believing we’d be better off with the GOP in charge.
If we believe that our votes matter (lol, but we have to assume that for this conversation to make any sense) then it is good that some people withhold their votes on protest against bad things that candidates support. Otherwise where is the pressure on those candidates coming from? We’ve already decided on this board that Palestinian protestors are bad, and now vote withholding is bad. I guess we can write strongly worded letters or something.
Dems wouldn’t have decided deregulation was bad if it wasn’t for Reagan
2 Likes