Wiener is Jewish! He believes Israel has a right to exist.
His statement: A few words on the disaster in Israel | Senator Scott Wiener
This was on October 11.
He has consistently been very critical of Netanyahu and Israel’s right wing government.
Yea I figured he was Jewish lol, I mean if he has Palestinian constituents it seems like they have a reason to be mad and not cuz they hate Jews
I don’t want ANY genocide! The trouble is, you seem to be refusing to acknowledge that calls for a ceasefire are only calling for Israel to stop. Great! Yes! they need to stop. But Hamas needs to stop vowing to eradicate Jews, too!
I spoke to a Jewish friend, an activist, and she explained that to her, and to most Jews, a “ceasefire” means Hamas will just be free to go on shooting rockets and vowing to kill Israelis. They just want some concession on Hamas’s part too! Which is a treaty…a peace agreement.
Look, I’m really not trying to be rude or to piss you off, but I think you really need to listen more to what’s actually being said at these “protests”, and possibly ask some of the targets of this hatred why they are so scared and upset.
Dogwhistles work because normal people can’t hear them, I get it, but they are definitely there and I think a lot of the well-meaning people on this board aren’t in tune with or recognizing some of the antisemitism that is driving some of these protests here in the US.
You can’t equivocate theoretical genocide with active genocide. The amount of power, death, atrocities is NOT equal. Getting some kind of deal from Hamas, give me a break - they are wiping out the Palestinian people and they NEED to stop now. There is no centrist middle ground here. Yes duh, Hamas is evil, that doesn’t mean Israel is justified wiping out Palestine from the map. What are we even doing here?
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She explicitly said, many times, Israel is in no way justified.
It’s so crazy nobody can ever have a discussion where people treat each other with the most basic good faith.
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And if they don’t get it they’re willing to wipe out the entirety of Palestine
I don’t think ceasefire now instead of genocide is a dog whistle which is how this convo got started
How am I not being in good faith? This is the first time I’ve felt I’ve disagreed with skydiver on something before as far as I remember. I honestly didn’t read every post in depth, but I don’t think saying that Israel isn’t justified gets to pull weight when claiming that asking for a ceasefire is pro-Hamas. I’ve got no side or whatever here, just think that we should all agree that maybe Israel should do a bit less genociding right about now. (And yes Hamas should all burn in hell too, etc)
How is this different than the USA genociding say all of Afghanistan unless Taliban promises never to fuck with us again. This shit is not moral.
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She said asking for a unilateral ceasefire is pro-Hamas. All she said is a ceasefire needs to be bilateral. This seems pretty reasonable and makes no claims as to which side is more culpable or violent. Just that both are both to some degree.
Everyone here agrees 100% Israel should do less genociding.
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Ok maybe I don’t understand what a unilateral ceasefire is - when the word ceasefire is used, I think most people understand it to mean to apply to both sides.
Obviously there are some people arguing in bad faith on both sides, but that’s not what I’m talking about.
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What do you think the definition of “unilateral” is?
It’s Israel withdrawing with no promises from Hamas or political barriers to stop future attacks.
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The centrist middle ground is to genocide both sides equally.
Does that involve say Israel removing the blockade or stopping the settler violence etc?
If not then Israel’s stance is basically you will let us fuck you up and you can’t retaliate or we will fully genocide you until you agree to let us fuck you up and agree not to retaliate, no?
This is idiotic even for you and if it’s some bad joke it’s not even a little funny.
You might. And a lot of well-meaning people calling for one might, but Hamas itself certainly doesn’t, as shown by the thousands of rockets they fire into Israel every year even when a “ceasefire” was in place.
Obviously any kind of full ceasefire will be a very complex political negotiation that has to at least lead to new peace talks about a two state solution. I’m not nearly educated on the topic enough to suggest specific conditions but certainly real Palestinian self governance would have to be on the table.
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This turned from a discussion about the discourse to the discourse itself, and I think we have a thread for that.
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Wait wait wait…you do know how many rockets have been fired into Israel yearly before this, don’t you?
Why does the Iron Dome even exist?