I agree with this, but please hear my point… They have to make shit up whereas, we have real life villains and bad guys in our corporate overlords
We need to demonize and go after them like they do immigrants, women, and atheists and we need to do it nonstop until 2028
I’m watching Bills Chiefs. I remember liking the Chiefs until they started winning the Super Bowl. Now I like the Bills and hate the Chiefs. Maybe elections just come down to people are tired of the current party in charge. I mean we went from Reagan to Clinton to Bush to Obama to Trump to Biden back to Trump. It’s like a windshield wiper. 
I’m gonna assume Bills are the president after Trump in this situation
WAT? People generally way huger assholes when they’re anonymous and online than when in person.
Also, to be clear, they are low info morons. Can this never be said? Is there a nicer way to put it? What is your goal here?
The other thing that Dems can do is offer obvious and transparent direct help to people. A big problem that they have is that they are enamoured of the technocratically “optimal” policy which involves turning the policy dials every so slightly this way and that way so that they generate an arguably good aggregate outcome that is also acceptable to their core corporate constituency. This has no electoral value because voters cannot connect the dots between Dem policy and outcomes. So Rs arrive and offer a simple to understand, and entirely fictional, narrative that claims that the Dems are actually cheating them. The Dems can certainly win over some voters with a direct attack on billionaires, but they can also win over tons of voters too by just sending them a check. Their corporate donors won’t like it, but the median voter loves checks from the government. Just try to take away their SS if you don’t believe me.
There’s probably a more delicate way to put it. But what’s really frustrating the matter is that no one in 2024 succeeds at politics by being respectful and persuading their ideological opponents. It’s all about appealing to your core base and shitting on the other guy. Republicans demonize minorities and LGBT people, Dems call Republicans Nazis, the DSA squad shits on the billionaire class, the Chapo Dirtbag guys yell at shitlibs, the religious right calls everyone Satanic, etc. etc. etc. The only “civil persuasion” guys are the NYT op-ed guys and everyone hates them, plus they’re just trolling anyway.
Dude you spent the last year preaching at all of us about how the polls were wrong because no way the youngs and minorities were moving towards Trump. Maybe just sit this one out.
they are very good at taking absolutely irrelevant things for most people and making them political issues
trans people exist the HORROR!
and it worked, like what
I might have encountered in my life total of about 5, I don’t think there’s one in my entire small town and yet I heard some people that was a big thing for them somehow. This is hard to combat.
I just don’t know how to combat it, one single immigrant assaults a white girl somewhere in the US and it’s national hysteria in right wing news. One trans person plays sports and does well and the world is basically ending. How do you fight the lizard brain? This shit has worked for thousands and thousands of years and will keep working.
It’s the age of social media. Goodluck figuring out why someone went viral/got elected and who’s going to next. I guarantee it’s not going to be because of policy.
Pounding on billionaires and corporations might work, but it won’t work as good as pounding on immigrants. Delusional idiots really think they’re going to be billionaires some day themselves. If they just watch one more Grant Cardone video.
I’m still trying to figure out is this is more of a problem for democrats or republicans, but I suspect it’s a bigger problem for republicans.
I think this discussion is actually really important. The professional left has vastly underestimated just how uneducated and uninformed and misinformed many voters are. So I think there’s a lot of value in calling it out so strategy can be adjusted. We shouldn’t avoid talking about it just because it feels icky.
This is different than “blaming” the voters, or writing them off, or having contempt for them. You can earnestly want to help people and you can believe in their value as human beings while still observing the fact that many of them have very dumb and intolerant ideas.
I don’t think so, way more normies are fans of elon musk than haters. He’s a billionaire genius after all. Doesn’t matter he’s saying uh let’s just say some not so good things, people don’t know or don’t know what that even means, those that do already didn’t vote for that.
No one here is making the observation that people are low-info morons out of concern for those people! Come on. It’s all contempt. I’m not sure I can explain to anyone here, if they don’t understand already, the value of not coming across like you have utter contempt for the people whose votes you need and who you supposedly want to help. Republican messaging targets specific minority groups in ways that allow most voters to imagine they aren’t talking about them. Like, they all stress that it’s about punishing illegal immigrants, not all brown people. The result? Not all Latin people feel like Trump hates them and wants to kick them out of the country, so more are open to his messaging and willing to vote for him, regardless of the facts. Dems need more people who are willing to listen to them and believe they have their best interests in mind. I don’t think that can happen when you clearly have contempt for anyone that didn’t vote for Harris or even might agree with some Republican messaging.
Yeah but he was really right because of reasons. You all were just not smart enough to know what Ikes really thought/thinks.
Case in point, the only time anyone here can remember Trump saying anything about “the uneducated” it was to say how much he loves them.
What if the dems don’t have these groups’ best interests actually in mind?
How do we get democrats back in the game? Well, I think things have to get pretty bad under Trump’s “leadership”, which I believe they will. And then we need to have Rogan and similar influencers flip on Trump. There aren’t that many liberal voices out there except perhaps for SNL and the Onion to point out how absurd the Trump regime will be. We need more. Soon it will be our turn to sit back and criticize. We need to find avenues to make the most of it. Meantime, make Rogan and the rest of them own this shit.
Honestly i think all of the back and forth on how Democrats need to change to be competitive in elections ignores the core problem.
At the national level Democrats are owned by the same corporate interests Republicans are. Democrats aren’t designed to win elections. They are designed to be a placeholder for the left most party in the country while still serving the corporate interests. It’s why they never enact their large agenda pieces when given the chance. Corporate America doesn’t want socialized health care. They don’t want gun control. They don’t want things like public education even. They care about one thing and one thing only. The bottom line.
Now this matters because it means the Democrats can only win on personality rather than policy. Because frankly their policy is only actually different around the edges. You aren’t going to have an Obama very often. Most of the time even if you had an Obama the Dem party machinery is going to kill them long before they make it that far. After Obama lets not forget the Dems changed the primary to the super delegate system which essentially allowed the party to pick the nominee rather than the voters.
It also explains why we always gripe about how the Dems always “move to the right”. They aren’t moving to the right. They were always there. When Kamala’s original messaging was working what did we find out the Dem stooges pressured her campaign into doing? Thats right lets onboard the Cheneys. Let’s never once tout the good left leaning things Biden did. Lets throw immigrants under the bus. We always scratch our head and wonder why they do that when it never works. Well honestly that’s the point. Corporate America desperately wanted Trump to win(see: the stonks market) and they in the end always get what they want. Even if Kamala had somehow won she had already moved far enough right to be palatable. She was literally talking about having Republicans in her cabinet lol.