I really think that framing this as a left vs. right election miss by the Dems is missing the bigger point which is that this was, clearly and objectively, a reality vs. fantasy election. Certainly the right is always pushing FEAR narratives with a heavy dose of lies, but it was really, really stark in this election that there is the observable world around us, where the Dems ran with their facts and policies, and the completely online made up alternative reality where the majority of people live and thatās where the Rs ran with their fantasy solutions to fantasy prolems. Dems are dead meat if they donāt frame a forward looking plan around this fundamental, IMO.
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Also, the other side isnāt shy about disrespecting the vast majority of Americans and they crush these elections.
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Was going to also say we donāt have any here but we do have the CONSEQUENCES crowd.
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I donāt think people who post stuff like that moderate their language or tone anywhere else. Itās not just about this message board. How you talk about people here almost certainly carries over into other parts of our lives.
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lol give me a break. Itās as if youāve never heard of the internet.
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I agree with this, but please hear my pointā¦ They have to make shit up whereas, we have real life villains and bad guys in our corporate overlords
We need to demonize and go after them like they do immigrants, women, and atheists and we need to do it nonstop until 2028
Iām watching Bills Chiefs. I remember liking the Chiefs until they started winning the Super Bowl. Now I like the Bills and hate the Chiefs. Maybe elections just come down to people are tired of the current party in charge. I mean we went from Reagan to Clinton to Bush to Obama to Trump to Biden back to Trump. Itās like a windshield wiper. 
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Iām gonna assume Bills are the president after Trump in this situation
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WAT? People generally way huger assholes when theyāre anonymous and online than when in person.
Also, to be clear, they are low info morons. Can this never be said? Is there a nicer way to put it? What is your goal here?
The other thing that Dems can do is offer obvious and transparent direct help to people. A big problem that they have is that they are enamoured of the technocratically āoptimalā policy which involves turning the policy dials every so slightly this way and that way so that they generate an arguably good aggregate outcome that is also acceptable to their core corporate constituency. This has no electoral value because voters cannot connect the dots between Dem policy and outcomes. So Rs arrive and offer a simple to understand, and entirely fictional, narrative that claims that the Dems are actually cheating them. The Dems can certainly win over some voters with a direct attack on billionaires, but they can also win over tons of voters too by just sending them a check. Their corporate donors wonāt like it, but the median voter loves checks from the government. Just try to take away their SS if you donāt believe me.
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Thereās probably a more delicate way to put it. But whatās really frustrating the matter is that no one in 2024 succeeds at politics by being respectful and persuading their ideological opponents. Itās all about appealing to your core base and shitting on the other guy. Republicans demonize minorities and LGBT people, Dems call Republicans Nazis, the DSA squad shits on the billionaire class, the Chapo Dirtbag guys yell at shitlibs, the religious right calls everyone Satanic, etc. etc. etc. The only ācivil persuasionā guys are the NYT op-ed guys and everyone hates them, plus theyāre just trolling anyway.
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Dude you spent the last year preaching at all of us about how the polls were wrong because no way the youngs and minorities were moving towards Trump. Maybe just sit this one out.
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they are very good at taking absolutely irrelevant things for most people and making them political issues
trans people exist the HORROR!
and it worked, like what
I might have encountered in my life total of about 5, I donāt think thereās one in my entire small town and yet I heard some people that was a big thing for them somehow. This is hard to combat.
I just donāt know how to combat it, one single immigrant assaults a white girl somewhere in the US and itās national hysteria in right wing news. One trans person plays sports and does well and the world is basically ending. How do you fight the lizard brain? This shit has worked for thousands and thousands of years and will keep working.
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Itās the age of social media. Goodluck figuring out why someone went viral/got elected and whoās going to next. I guarantee itās not going to be because of policy.
Pounding on billionaires and corporations might work, but it wonāt work as good as pounding on immigrants. Delusional idiots really think theyāre going to be billionaires some day themselves. If they just watch one more Grant Cardone video.
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Iām still trying to figure out is this is more of a problem for democrats or republicans, but I suspect itās a bigger problem for republicans.
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I think this discussion is actually really important. The professional left has vastly underestimated just how uneducated and uninformed and misinformed many voters are. So I think thereās a lot of value in calling it out so strategy can be adjusted. We shouldnāt avoid talking about it just because it feels icky.
This is different than āblamingā the voters, or writing them off, or having contempt for them. You can earnestly want to help people and you can believe in their value as human beings while still observing the fact that many of them have very dumb and intolerant ideas.
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I donāt think so, way more normies are fans of elon musk than haters. Heās a billionaire genius after all. Doesnāt matter heās saying uh letās just say some not so good things, people donāt know or donāt know what that even means, those that do already didnāt vote for that.
No one here is making the observation that people are low-info morons out of concern for those people! Come on. Itās all contempt. Iām not sure I can explain to anyone here, if they donāt understand already, the value of not coming across like you have utter contempt for the people whose votes you need and who you supposedly want to help. Republican messaging targets specific minority groups in ways that allow most voters to imagine they arenāt talking about them. Like, they all stress that itās about punishing illegal immigrants, not all brown people. The result? Not all Latin people feel like Trump hates them and wants to kick them out of the country, so more are open to his messaging and willing to vote for him, regardless of the facts. Dems need more people who are willing to listen to them and believe they have their best interests in mind. I donāt think that can happen when you clearly have contempt for anyone that didnāt vote for Harris or even might agree with some Republican messaging.
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