on which side? to stand in the middle?
Itâs also the place that becomes an immediate dumping ground for any atrocity anecdotes or mis-attributed video clips that the west wants to build a narrative around as soon as there is any conflict. These are all credulously amplified until actual reality becomes too difficult to decipher and the whole thing becomes a wash. See the beginning of the Ukraine conflict when Russians were doing nothing but murdering babies and torturing women in the streets for fun. In the end as long as you have the perception that these people just dont do war the way we war then the brutal apartheid continues.
Edit - pretty perfect example here of how this all works
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A security professional with more than 10 years of experience in the field of intelligence, geopolitical analysis. I served in the military and now work with governments, NGOs and leading companies to increase risk awareness and mitigate threats. I am also a commentator on foreign affairs, regularly quoted in major news outlets such as NBC, the Washington Post, the Wall Street Journal, CNN etc, and a columnist for al-Majalla. You can also find me on twitter https://twitter.com/michaelh992.
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Iâd say 1000 murders are a pretty big anecdote.
Itâs kinda strange how people think being pro-palestine (aka - being in favor of the Palestinians having their own state along side Israel and ending the occupation) obligates them to these impossible moral justifications.
Right. I think you can both be in favor of Palestinians having territory where they have Autonomy and self-Governance free of interference or threat from Israel AND also think these actions against Civilians are completely depraved and unjustified.
The hardest thing to untangle in this never-ending conflict is that if you keep using past actions as a justification for new violence, the cycle just continues and never reaches a peaceful state.
As I mentioned before, this type of thought plays right into the hands of those who wants to âflatten Gazaâ or some other inhuman sayings.
One of the worst arguments over and over were how rockets from Gaza arenât a big thing because of Iron Dome. Or X number of people killed is less of a big deal because y people were killed in retaliation. The lack of success in attempting a genocide isnât a point in anyoneâs favor. Once Hamas found the tools and opportunity to execute a large genocide operation they did so with pride.
It should be extremely clear at this point that with more resources and opportunities theyâll attempt larger scale genocides. Israel would be suicidal to allow that. There is no way this can end without dismenteling Hamas regime and thereâs no way the occupation ends without dismenteling the Right and even Centric zionist preception.
Whether they are justifiable or not (whatever that even means here), the point is its a completely inevitable consequence of Israelâs actions. All of the bs moral handwringing around grandmothers and innocent festival goes and puppies and whatever is just a craven distortion of reality - Israel a terrorist state that has inflicted orders of magnitude worse atrocities on these people and will continue to do so with the aid of western media. The fact that the focus on the brutality is what dominates the framing when Hamas attacks, but, like tanks and strategic maps and the iron dome or whatever when it goes the under way is whats informative here. Not whether x number of civilians died since thereâs zero consistent criteria being used to draw moral lines around anything when it comes to Israel.
Totally not a fascist zionist though you just reach the exact same conclusion as them. Shrug.
Again, this is kneejerk replies. Youâre using opinions at best and describe them as facts, which is standard bad social media writing.
Youâre more than welcome to ask questions about the situation and educate yourself. Not because âisrael is rightâ or anything, just because this chat gpt stuff isnât helping you gather actual information.
What was the conclusion I reached? Are you at any way capable of having a discussion?
You clearly misunderstood my post if thatâs your reply.
And what are Palestinians justified to do then?
Organize boycots, fight soldiers, fight settlers.
Also imagine thinking âPalestiniansâ are one thing. Just lower your arrogance level a tiny bit about a subject that complicated you clearly give very little thought to and try going into a discussion with something better than a jpeg.
âIt should be extremely clear at this point that with more resources and opportunities theyâll attempt larger scale genocides. Israel would be suicidal to allow that. There is no way this can end without dismenteling Hamas regimeâŚâ
I got from ChatGPT that Hamas was created by Israel to undermine the PLO, can you educate me on that?
Yes, Hamas was created, or heavily aided, by Israel to undermine the PLO.
Very similar to the Taliban in that sense.
Now how does that help your argument, whatever that is? If you want to have an honest discussion in which both parties attempt to learn anything, explain the next steps Israel can take in regards to Hamas-controlled Gaza after yesterdayâs events.
Can you name me a single time when there was a Palestinian military action against settlers or soldiers that wasnât attributed to terrorism
People who do that are idiots. Like my government. People who claim massacaring 1000 people is a natural consequence are idiots. Remarkably, you can hold a more complicated and nuanced view of a conflict. I mean, not everyone.
I do think itâs hard to know how to feel about this situation sitting comfortably thousands of miles away. On one hand killing civilians is very bad and I assume no one here is for that. On the other hand Palestinians do deserve land and self-governance.
As with most things like this the bad actors arenât the actual people who live in these places. 99% of Israelis or Palestinians probably want peace right? So you have a tiny minority of radicals on both sides who are causing the majority of this situation.
I have to admit I was very pro-Israel/anti-Palestine back in my early 20s when I was a right winger. I made a couple friends in college who were Palestinians and to their credit they really made me think about it differently(even though I am sure they thought I was an ignorant pos). To be honest not really sure what I am trying to add here just saying maybe we should have a little grace towards each other in this situation. None of us is for what is happening on either side I assume. This whole thing sucks. If I was Yuv I probably fly off the handle much harder on Jake even though to some extent I agree with Jake that Israel has been perpetuating this forever without really trying to find an actual solution. To me itâs impossible to understand what spending a day in a bomb shelter feels like not knowing when/if your building will be hit my some semi-guided rockets or whatever.
Well insofar as when 9/11 happened and we invaded Afghanistan I was opposed to it and reserved my scorn unequivocally for the US government instead of crying about missing my poker game itâs a pretty good analogy
Youâre very brave sir. Iâd be interested in your thoughts on the matter if Mexico were the one who did so. But again, why hold any serious thoughts on a matter when you can just find your favorite twitter infographics.