Most people don’t think that the majority of Jews are the same as white supremacist, but they listen to people like Jake say he’s anti zionist and they are against Israel’s government action, so they think the two are the same.
He just wrote that wanting a homeland for the Jewish people is the same as white supremacy. Which was obvious to me when he said all Jews that escaped the holocaust to Israel should have been jailed and punished, but some of you might not figure out the connection as fast as I do.
Do you hold the same belief about the black nationalism of Malcolm X and the Nation of Islam?
It’s all an understandable political reaction to being a brutally oppressed group. That’s not to say it’s good.
It is exactly why I/P is so intractable because its two massively oppressed groups fighting for a tiny spec of land that is the last scrap of floating wood in the middle of a huge storm.
Zionism is not inherently religious, but there are obviously strands of religious Zionism. There’s not some singular form of Zionism and different Zionists have different visions of what a homeland to the Jewish people look like.
For example, I’m sure there are some people who support a homeland for the Jewish people, but don’t believe that homeland should take the form of a Jewish ethnic nation-state. The people who I have seen trying to express something along those lines seem to lack the intellectual toolbox for expressing that in a way that will clearly not be perceived as anti-semitic.
Definitions are important. I think some people who identify or might be identified as anti-ZIonist aren’t good at defining Zionism. They might be against the status quo, but they don’t have a good explanation for what they want to see happen. Since they can’t define Zionism, they don’t know how to express what aspect of Zionism they object to.
I fully agree. It’s also a tool to be able to differentiate those who support opressed people, like Jews in the 1940s and Palestinians today and want both to have a peaceful life and those who are flat out Nazis who think holocaust surviovrs should have been sent back to the gas chambers like @anon12235340.
Of course not but just because religious animus has morphed into ethnic animus doesn’t change the bedrock cause. Religion is a part of ethnicity, often the most important part.
I’m more inclined to believe that there is animus that just seeks the path of least resistance. If religion didn’t exist, people would just find another reason to not get along. In other words, haters gonna hate.
Yeah I mean Malcolm X evolved beyond that because it’s inherently problematic. I also don’t think historical oppression of jews is really the driving force behind modern day zionism. Maybe the analogy would work if Liberia was one of the wealthiest and most powerful countries in the world and being used as a US-backed proxy while gleefully slaughtering Sierra Leonians.
I mean of course it is. It’s a group of people 100% of which personally know someone who died in the worlds worst genocide the result of which was the very nation they are now forced to defend.
What is modern day zionism? can you describe the periods? You are on record saying the 1947 UN partition plan is Jew supremacist ideology. So when was “old day” zionism?
“The very nation they are forced to defend” is doing a lot of work here. Not all Israelis are zionists. The whole “intractable debacle” talking point is zionist framing though, many who don’t share a zionist worldview would be in favor of ceasefire and a number of concessions towards the Palestinians that Israel continues to oppress. It’s not just “the weather” that Israel has to respond to the Hamas attack with outrageous force, as much as the US media and Israel keep insisiting.
Of course. As I said, it’s not good, but it’s understandable in light of the history and the reason why the people who want to pretend it’s a black and white moral imperative are just plain idiots.
This is of someone is saying anti-semitism doesnt exist or what? I don’t get the comparison. In the modern day anti-semitism exists all over the place obviously, but given what the current Israeli state actually is and does, support for it is not inherently related to anti-semitism at all and those trying to link the two are disingenuous.
Just because facts are more interesting than twitter opinions - the Labor party in Israel changed it’s name to “The Zionist Union” in 2014 going against Netanyahu.
You could say that all the Jews in Israel are racist white supremacist but saying bullshit like “not all israelis are zionists” or make an actual effort to understand why Jews think you’re racist when you tell them they have no right for a homeland.
Of course, as I mentioned, someone who prides himself on being pro-Putin and hating illegal immigrants probably doesn’t care about other peopel’s feelings.
The comparison is to your suggestion the holocaust doesn’t loom over this whole thing like a massive nuclear bomb about to explode in the middle of every Jews life if they lose Israel.
