The best is when he makes a correct fold or something and people are like, omg what a horrible play my gto machine says call 93.7% of the time.
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No, the best is when people lose their mind over a “sick fold” after his last three big folds were wrong.
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Hellmuth probably folded the turn because he realized he was going to fold most rivers. This is especially true if he has an aggressive opponent who will overbet the pot on more than half of the possible river cards. If he’s not willing to call down in those spots, then he is better off just folding the turn.
(I considered mentioning reverse implied odds, but we all know Hellmuth doesn’t think much in terms of odds.)
phil probably has an old mindset of most players don’t double fire with a bluff and just auto folds
if you think your opponent is weak, you don’t need a large sizing though
he has a not a bluffer rep so he gets away with some of that stuff too even though we know he makes moves, some people have not figured this out yet
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I don’t disagree with any of this, but I assume you’re writing this as a defense of his play when it’s actually an indictment.
@wheatrich He folded TP2K to the first postflop bet, it wasn’t a double barrel.
@anon38180840 He also has K5o and Q8o and every suited spade hand and every suited diamond hand, etc etc. Easily far more worse hands than KJ than better.
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Did it include any photos of Phil?
Looking like we might need one very soon.
Can we stop talking about Phil Hellmuth? It is a dumb fucking topic.
I will never understand posts like this. Who is forcing you to read it?
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I’m not really defending his play, but I think there are circumstances where it’s probably not nearly as bad as people assume.
If you know that your opponent will 2x pot on the river with close to the correct frequency of bluffs, how should you play top pair here? What if calling down and losing puts you into third place three-handed?
It does look like the wrong play, especially since we can see the hole cards, but no one is being rigorous about it, not even me. I know that a one pair holding with little chance to improve is in a tough spot on a dynamic board where a bunch of straightening cards plus two possible flush draws gives an aggressive player a lot of bluff opportunities. Hellmuth’s hand doesn’t block any of those draws, which means it has bluff-catching potential on a brick but isn’t the best bluff-catcher when any of those draws come in (but it also unblocks turn semibluffs).
People do understand that sometimes the correct play involves folding what might be the best hand because of how the hand could play out, right? It’s not always “I haz top pair and its lol short handed so I have to call down and if I lose it’s a cooler”.
Ponied by 2 mins bill fillmaff is classic though
Why do you assume I’ve been reading those posts? The topic has little relevance to the 2022 WSOP (other than the mention of his FT) and it is annoying to scroll past at the risk of missing actual WSOP content, especially considering the conversation has occurred in every poker thread on UP and it is just the exact same people making the same arguments again. It also hides actually interesting content, like when you brought up your horses and got a few responses.
GET OUT OF MY HEAD
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I am way more impressed by results over a long period vs the “wizards” that can’t get such. That is correct.
The time has come. Anytime I can be the c group to board and still end up with a front seat is a good day.
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Why are front seats so coveted? Is it because you save about 10 min getting of the plane? I’ve never understood it. As far as I’m concerned, coach is coach. I actually favor the back, because I find that the chance that I’ll have an unoccupied seat next to me will be higher, because everyone seems to like the front.
I can stretch my legs out like I’m in a recliner for 3 hours and first off the plane. I’ll take those 2 100% of the time.
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