Yup. This is exactly what happened in our short-lived thread. Every other person was coming in hot like, “WAT? You don’t think health care is a human right? You are clearly a moron and/or a shitty human being”. And keep in mind, this was to an audience that pretty much was 100% in favor of single payer health care (regardless of whether they felt that health care is a human right).
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Close imo. We need messaging that clearly defines how each progressive policy is a result of their values.
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I’ve thought for a few years that the core value of the Democratic Party should be that anyone who puts in an honest week’s work should be able to put food on the table, a roof over their head, heat their home, have health insurance, be able to give their kids a good education, and have enough left over for tickets to the ball game now and then and a reasonable annual vacation. And when the time comes, a dignified retirement.
That’s why we support $15/hr, single payer healthcare, and free college tuition.
Any “that’s socialism” attack should be met with, “Which thing I listed do you think hard working Americans don’t deserve? Food? A roof? Health insurance?”
Hammer them on that frame until they’re forced to debate on policy, at which point we’ve won.
The debate eventually shifts to “Well how do you define hard working?”
The key there is to remember we’ve already won, and our job is no longer to win the argument, it’s not to fumble at the one yardline.
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If somebody can prove that health care can work in capitalism, I’m all ears. Now is the time to prove it. Because we’ve tried that and it doesn’t work. People are denied insurance or are charged premiums that they’ll never be able to afford.
If I need a car, I can get one for $50,000, or I can get one for $1,000. But in health care, everything is state-of-the-art. I can’t go to the “Dirty Needle Clinic” to get my colonscopy at 2% of the price of the good colonoscopies.
Obamacare puts the cost of health insurance on a sliding scale based on income, and the mandate was intended to make it more affordable by creating a bigger pool. Those who don’t like it, like those in the medical and insurance industries, need to speak up NOW, because your shit doesn’t work in a capitalistic system. If you think it does, now’s the time to prove it. Otherwise, we’re going to move even more toward socialized medicine. As Daddy Trump would say “we have no choice”.
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Yeah framing it like this as a matter of fairness is pretty strong. A sense of fairness is built into our primate dna, it’s a powerful unconscious motivator. It might be that more than racism that the right appeals to with the welfare queen type tropes.
A lot of progressive policies can be framed this way - don’t you deserve yada yada yada, why should those born rich pay less taxes than you, etc.
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Is this still the student debt thread?
Maybe it’s to the point that it’s not like a moral issue and student debt is such a burden to society that debt relief would be +EV for those paying it as well as for the recipients. Perhaps reliving people of their student debt would actually make it easier to invest in K-12 or trade schools or extra support for poor and/or disadvantaged people.
Yeah, that’s a variant of trickle down, but debt is a lot more stifling than just having a higher top tier income tax.
People go to Mexico or The Philipines or wherever to get good medical treatment at vastly lower prices.
Insurance industry is fine with ObamaCare. Insurance is largely what makes healthcare so expensive and either cash only capitalism or completely nationalized care would lower costs. Like, the post office does a good service and so does UPS, but a mandated system of package delivery insurance would drive costs up.
Propaganda works. We all correctly(not that it was hard) nailed it that as soon as the primary was over the entire right wing apparatus would be used to paint Biden a radical socialist. That is laughable on the surface but local news is being controlled by Sinclair. Cable News you have Fox News, which obviously does the same, and CNN/MSNBC who spent pretty much the entire primary painting Bernie and socialism in general in a negative light. Socialism is bad for the corporate owners of these channels and so of course they have anti-socialism propaganda as well it is just more subtle. BUT HOW ARE YOU GOING TO PAY FOR IT pieces every hour during the primary is what I’m talking about. What mainstream news channel lovably talks about universal health care and fixing income inequality? As near as I can tell there isn’t one.
The minimum wage passing easily I think is mostly a function of people voting for their own self interest in a simple yes or no way. You see it with mj ballot measures as well. They almost always pass. It isn’t some promise from a Dem politician that in your heart you know is BS and not likely to ever happen. It’s something a voter actually controls and they know that.
Most of the Dems themselves are bought and paid for stooges who have little to no appetite for solving any of the real problems. Is Joe even for a $15 national minimum wage? My guess without looking would be no. As a result people don’t see voting for a Dem as voting for their own self interest. Why would they, they have a lifetime of observing the Dems pay lip service to pretty much every important issue while doing very little for the working class while going along with lots that helps the ownership class.
I mean none of us even really deep down think the Dems would make radical changes even if elected with a sizeable majority right? Would we get UHC if the Dems had 60 in the Senate and a large majority in the House? Of course not we literally saw that play out in 2009.
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I think this is true. The first Republican who supports Medicare for All and Trumpian immigration and trade policy is going to break American politics.
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His campaign platform says he is:
https://joebiden.com/empowerworkers/
Increase the federal minimum wage to $15. As Vice President, Biden helped get state and local laws increasing the minimum wage across the finish line – including in New York State – and has supported eliminating the tipped minimum wage. He firmly believes all Americans are owed a raise, and it’s well past time we increase the federal minimum wage to $15 across the country. This increase would include workers who aren’t currently earning the minimum wage, like the farmworkers who grow our food and domestic workers who care for our aging and sick and for those with disabilities. As president, Biden will also support indexing the minimum wage to the median hourly wage so that low-wage workers’ wages keep up with those of middle income workers.
But, yeah, this really show two major problems:
- Was this the messaging? Especially in Florida where they were literally voting on this at the same time? I don’t know for sure, but I’m guessing not.
- This type of promise is just ripe for disaffecting low wage workers if/when it doesn’t get done over the next four years.
“Build The Wall and Medicare For All”. The slogan writes itself. Had Trump done this early, he crushes.
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Interesting. I never heard him say it once on the campaign trail or in a debate. How many people actually go to Biden’s website and read it? 1%? 5%? It has to be a tiny number.
We are talking about a $15 minimum wage. I am aware he isn’t for UHC. Which kind of goes back to my original point. The Dems didn’t really run on a progressive agenda that appeals to people at all. They ran behind Biden who ran on platitudes like Decency and Unity.
For all of Trump’s flaws it was quite clear what four more years of Trump meant. Biden was running on the 2016 status quo. That isn’t attractive to people imo.
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There was a direct question in the final debate about $15 minimum wage. Biden supported it, and Trump said it was bad for businesses. I though it was an unusually bad Trump answer. 2016 Trump would have said, “once I’m president you won’t be worried about what the minimum wage is because you’ll be making more than that”.
Well we will see soon enough. It’s definitely not getting done over the next four years, not even in Florida. Amendment 2 doesn’t call for it to make it to $15 until 2026. And that gives Florida’s legislature and GOP governor ample time to pull some bs to get it watered down or overturned entirely.
Obviously I missed that. I assume it was basically a yes or no type question?
Ultimately what I am saying is that a lot of people do want progressive change. They don’t vote for Dems in droves because most of the Dem power structure doesn’t want progressive change. I mean hell we had multiple posters here saying they weren’t voting for Biden for exactly that reason. Biden/Schumer/Pelosi is not very appealing to a voter voting directly for minimum wage increases. They have all been there forever and have never raised a finger to make it happen.
It’s a combo of that and anti-socialst propaganda on literally every news outlet 24/7. People are either scared to death of it or don’t believe the Dems will deliver.
Yes there was a very direct question to each candidate about whether they support a $15 minimum wage. Biden yes, Trump no.
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Hmm, what do normal people want to hear for the 2 minutes they tune in before voting:
- This is a battle for the soul of our nation
- I will give you healthcare, stimulus money and a $15 minimum wage
Dems: lets go with #1
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It’s insane that Biden is pro-legalizing weed but somehow almost never mentioned that on the campaign trail. I can’t think of a better way to pick up casual low-info voters and Libertarian Roganbros.
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