Repeatedly calling for the jailing of political opponents is not standard. Trump would absolutely have done this is if not for institutional pushback.
Rallying the police force as a political identity and demanding their loyalty to you is not standard. Trump did this.
Referring to the media as the enemy of the people is not standard and it’s not just intellectual hand-waving to complain about this. Trump would close publications he disagrees with if not for institutional pushback.
I mean, I could go on. The key point is that the degree to which Trump is “the same” as other presidents is because of institutions. He is more authoritarian than any president I have lived under and it’s not clear that those institutions would have been strong enough to prevent outright fascist outcomes had he have won another term.
If we grant all of your points(and I think they’re reasonable), that leads me to two questions(for anyone reading the thread):
Since it’s not clear that our institutions would have been strong enough to prevent Trump-authoritarianism/fascism, is that because our institutions just happened to be weak at this exact moment in time, or is it because the institutions of our capitalist form of government are inherently susceptible to authoritarianism/fascism because capitalism is authoritarian?
Since Trump(or any fascist/authoritarian) rallying police forces to his side is dangerous because the police appear to be 1) very open to his courtship, 2) ready, equipped, and experienced in the enforcement of authoritarianism. Wouldn’t this mean that the Abolish/Defund the Police advocates and activists have in fact 1) correctly identified an institution that is extremely susceptible to authoritarianism/fascism, and 2) correctly identified what steps we should take(defund/abolish) in order to limit the power of that institution?
Majority report saying Jaime Harris being head of DNC is very disheartening. I trust them on that. It’s almost certainly going to be more of the same and we’re going to be super duper fucked.
Yeah I posted earlier I think its good but I’m also worried about pissing off working class whites that are struggling right now and we aren’t doing shit for.
People with student loan debt already vote dem.
I’m kinda unsure about it tbh. Yes teh GOP will do this with everything, but this will be real. Struggling working class people will definitely be pissed if dems are essentially giving educated people a fuckton of money while there is no stimulus or any other kind of help.
All this is why UBI is the political winner for how to redistribute wealth. There’s always going to be totally reasonable arguments why group A isn’t more deserving than group B/C/D that’s going to derail getting anything done. Free money for me is something everyone can get behind except the rich people who have to pay for it.
Imo it’s a bad idea. If it’s triggering my resentment a bit, which it is, then the median voter probably will be even more pissed. To take the farm analogy and turn it on its head, yeah, it pisses me off that MAGAtard farmers are cashing big gov checks from my tax dollars.
If you’re gonna start cutting big checks like that, either (A) give it to all poor people on a need basis, or (B) give it to all people period. (A) is liberalism, (B) is socialism, and I don’t know what the fuck you call this, button mashing.
Imagine if Klobs came up with the Medicare for All college credit, where if you graduated college, you get free healthcare for five years (everybody else, no). How pissed would everybody here be? That’s kind of what this is.
Well for one thing, student loan relief IS economic stimulus. Every dollar that isn’t being sucked down the Sallie Mae black hole is a dollar going to the butcher, baker, candlestick maker, what have you.
For another, yes, the people with student loans do vote Dem…just like the farmers and the oil execs vote GOP. Why do the farmers and oil execs keep voting GOP? Because they get rewarded for doing so! Why shouldn’t the student loan debtor?
And also it’s not like this is the only thing we can do for “our people” anyway. It’s just one thing out of many.
We have GOT to stop playing not to lose when we have the ball!
There’s something to be said for rewarding people who actually vote for you. The current party system is being characterized as cities vs rural with suburbs as the swing votes. Does college loan debt forgiveness disproportionately target suburbanites? If so, what can we get these suburb dwellers to support for urban folk that doesn’t directly help them?
We can’t be afraid to piss some people off. If it’s mostly poor, grievance culture, uneducated whites who have abandoned Democrats who are going to be the most triggered, are we really losing that much? Punish them for leaving, I say.
I’ve never understood the enthusiasm for paying off student debt because like, are colleges charging people too much for degrees or not? If degrees are worth that money, then why should the government pay the debt? If they’re not worth the money, isn’t that the problem we should be addressing? Like if people are being extorted, “have the government pay the extortion money for them” is not a solution, it’s just idiocy.
This Hobbes tweet is ridiculous:
The right wing will say it’s a cash handout which only benefits educated elites and that’s not “mischaracterizing” the program. That’s what it actually is. The idea that the accuracy of this description has no bearing on the success of political attacks against the policy is absurd.
It’s so weird because the left are generally opposed to means-tested policies, the left want universal, broad-based programs, yet what we have here is essentially a means-tested policy, except the criterion isn’t even “do you need the money?”, it’s “have you been to college?”.
The most vulnerable people are getting exploited by Trump quality for profit higher ed who want the federal guarantee 100k and offer empty promises in return. They’ve been told that higher education is essential, it’s their individual responsibility, and then the only institution which welcomes them is a fraud.
It’s absurd the solution to the college scam is that everyone else should pay for it. **** that. Do a better job explaining to kids the pros/cons and hey don’t get a giant loan for a worthless degree. That’s the solution.
Also eliminate all gen ed requirements that’s 2 wasted years of money and time for everybody. Some of it is even free on the internet anyway but we’re paying thousands individually for the same stuff, it’s insane.
Yes, just got to get it past that pesky Grim Reaper, but yes all for it! Great idea! Until that happens, let’s just schedule a purge of student debt everytime a D is elected President so people can plan accordingly! Done and done…
Just giving people the tools to have a chance to parse through the massive amount of disinformation thrown at them is worth without even getting into the career/productivity prospects.
Jesus fucking Christ, you guys have me on here defending Vict0ar, half his point was that it was an open debate amongst actual scholars of the subject so his take wasn’t crazy. Like, Vict0ar is among my least favorite posters here, and there is a lot to criticize him on, but y’all are fucking whiffing on this.
No, this technocratic bullshit that ends up never happening is why people get disillusioned with do nothing loser D politicians.
I’ll tell you what, I’m going to push ahead with advocating for Ds to give people debt relief help immediately and repeat it as often as possible. And now that you know this, YOU can get to work on your plan to “fix college education,” and get YOUR bill through Congress.
You seem like you might be a little more wound up than me about this. I was just curious if that was the plan, and if not, why are the people currently holding student debt any more special than the people that just paid it off and the people that will hold it in the future?
Any policy that is economically left is going to piss some people off. Imo that’s a baseline given and at this point should probably be low on the list of why not to do something.
I think most here would agree Biden’s going to need to have some accomplishments that show he/Dems are trying to make life better for people. Pending GA, those are unlikely to come through major legislation. If he’s willing to be aggressive with executive orders to try to find something that works, I’m certainly not going to complain about the cancellation of student debt.*
*Conflict of Interest Disclaimer: I would personally benefit from this policy. But like, as a consistent Democratic voter, I’m okay with them doing something that I will personally benefit from. That’s good!