That’s from mid 2017 after they watered it down to pass legal muster. On the campaign trail, it was “I Donald J Trump am calling for a temporary ban of all Muslims entering the country until we can figure out what the hell is going on.” That had terribly high support given how despicable it is, but it wasn’t majority support.
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Thats a really good question, but I don’t know the answer. Do we even have data on which policy measured drive voting choices?
My biggest takeaway from 2020 thus far (and hopefully something eDems and progressives can agree on) is that the single most important thing Dems need to do is change the perception that the Republicans are fighting against the elites.
Perhaps that’s obvious, but it’s useful to me at least to have a substantive goal in mind on how to go forward.
This may or may not require changes in policy. I tend to think it probably doesn’t, because the Republican Party policy is completely tailored to favor elites. [Please note that I am NOT saying that the Dem party policy shouldn’t change, I just consider it separate from the point I’m making here].
I think the cheap/standard answer on this question is that Dems need to stop talking about race and social justice or become “socially conservative.” That may be true, but I don’t think it necessarily is.
Probably an oversimplification, but I’ve always wondered how far Trump got by literally just swearing. Like, what if we start running Dems who vote the right way but are a bit more irreverent in how they talk about the system? Seems like it can’t hurt?
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All these problems are solved if we recruit the Rock to run, IMO.
I think the Dems need to focus on delivering something good. Just go Trump and and do it, and then fight it in the courts.
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That there is a backlash against elites is something that seems demonstrably true in the US and around the world.
We all know inequality is a massive problem in the US. It is looking more and more like Thomas Frank/Piketty are correct in their analysis that Dems are becoming the party of the well-educated elite (I believe David Shorr did some empirical work on this prior to 2020, I’m sure a lot more is coming). There is nothing to indicate that any of these trends is going to change, and from where we stand now they seem to be getting worse.
People call Dems corporatist, but at the end of the day the Republican Party is the party of capital. It is the party of the elites from a material perspective. Letting them win on this issue seems to me to be the deepest political malpractice one could imagine at this moment.
Now, how do you actually change that perception? That’s where the heavy-lifting comes in. But I just haven’t seen this issue discussed as much as it seems like it should be.
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Vict0ar has done more for a candidate than anybody on this forum save for probably Skydiver.
He’s trolling you all by giving you enough rope to hang yourselves. And it’s working hilariously/horrifically.
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Republicans are the party of capital but Democrats are the party of woke capital and lest it sounds like I’m totally dismissing that, it is better. That little black boys and girls can grow up to be sociopathic vulture capitalists is measurably better and it’s what puts leftists like me in a bind.
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Both major parties are servants to capital, banks, and business. I posted about this in another thread a couple days ago.
People have the perception of the Dem party as being beholden to the wealthy. It’s difficult to change that perception because it’s true.
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My point is that there is absolutely no reason it should be considered more true for the Democrats than the Republicans.
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I am a leftist, and Trump just blows all of this out of the water, and it’s where you and Victor and Chapo are just wrong. Like if the GOP was still somewhat doing the norms and was running Mitt Romney then sure let’s burn it all down, but Trump actually does want to do a coup even if he’s too dumb to pull it off.
People are just being results-oriented in saying Trump isn’t an autocrat or we’re not descending into fascism. Chapo was 100% wrong this week with their commentary on that. We very narrowly avoided the end of democracy and relatively fair elections.
Obama doing drones and Dems being the corporate party of policing cultural issues while offering zero of substance is still >>>>>> being literally Russia in terms of wealth inequality and corruption. It’s game over and zero possibility of reforming either party at that stage.
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It’s difficult, R capital has nefarious long-term, committed plans at all levels of society to entrench their power and they are deeply passionate about it. Federalist Society taking over the courts and everything the Koch brothers have been up to the last 40 years as egregious examples. The Chamber of Commerce too, which works with both parties and is quietly anti-Trump, but historically has been heavily R.
D capital spent on liberal causes is mainly just to assuage guilt. Like we get Mark fucking Zuckerberg who makes a shitload of money poisoning our political discourse and then gives a chunk of it to schools or whatever.
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chapo is a good example of how far irreverence can take you. With some exceptions (Christman, sometimes), their analysis is just horrendous. I mean it’s frankly downright embarrassing at points.
But they’re irreverent as hell and because everything is fucked, that’s welcome and I continue to listen. In my opinion there’s an important lesson to be had here. When people know the system is fucked, they lose patience with people who tell them it’s not, and they turn to people who acknowledge that it is, even if those people are idiots.
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Whoa, that was a reply to specifically something Paul Mcswizzle said.
See, that’s what happened when I dont quote reply.
My post wasnt meant to be a general commentary about trump not being a menace or ‘both sides are the same’ and what not. I even said the most cynical appraisal of the dems is still measurably better.
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It’s like this: Joe Biden is much, much, much better than trump and THAT’S the problem. It’s an eternal bind.
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Feels like the way to change that perception is to actually change. And I feel like that is the main thrust of this forum.
I’d argue for something visible and symbolic like building a working guillotine.
The left should be lighting a populist bonfire over economic issues that has the potential to be an out-of-control conflagration that has collateral damage. The Democratic establishment is composed of technocrats who overvalue order and thing their job is to prevent wildfires.
Until there are more people on the left who are mad enough to be just as crazy as Trumpists in the extremes that they are willing to go, arguably the establishment win. A part of me thinks we need more Victors and a part of me thinks Victor doesn’t go far enough.
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Oh ok, my bad, I wasnt being clear. The bind is that no matter how much the dems fail the repubs will dig up an unimaginable ghoul so we’ll always say, yeah, this is a clear easy choice. Not a bind of not being able to see the clear easy choice.
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John Brown wants a guillotine. I’m just shocked.
Free Money Friday: anyone who wants to bet on Biden winning the election at -400 (yes, the election that just took place) on PredictIt should head over to the Betting On Politics thread.
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