wat? We’re gonna implement a regressive tax so I can buy $1k worth of stocks? That seems like an absurd giveaway to me and my broker.
Putting in some sort of income cutoff and doubling it to $2k seems like a better option.
UBI seems much better if it’s taxable to me. The people who need it most would hardly pay any tax on it at all and the well off would give nearly half of it back right off the bat. And if those same rich folks actually end up needing it later on then they won’t pay much tax on it. Seems perfect.
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I do wonder what effect it would have on people though. When my kids are out of the house, give me $1000/month and I may just grab my backpack and take off.
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I mean again this is semantics because the same entity pays and collects. What you’re proposing is a lower payment for high income people and a higher payment for low income people (regardless of wealth).
Right but the mechanism is already there and no one has to stand in line and fill out forms to prove how poor they are. Obviously you could accomplish the same thing by means testing and making it tax free, but to what end?
This is simple, and I don’t understand why you can’t see it.
The taxes will not be deducted immediately. A huge amount of the people receiving the money (who will have to pay taxes on it, not the people who need it most who won’t) will spend all the money thinking it’s not taxable. The tax bill will come in way higher than they ever expected at the end of the year, and because they didn’t save their money they can’t pay the bill without going into debt (if they can even do that).
Now do you see the potential problem? If you’re not telling people this up front, it’s very bad. There are a lot of people on this board who are really smart, and really good at managing money. This is not common. This will be a huge problem with disastrous political implications if not done properly.
lol everyone’s job will just assume $12,000 of other income and withhold appropriately. Not difficult at all.
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Can we get a UBI thread, please? Somewhere outside of any other threads? Please
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This. Or submit a w4 type thing every year with your taxes that dictates direct withholding from your UBI check that is then settled up when you file next years taxes.
The current standard deduction is $12,200 so getting an extra $12k a year for someone currently making $36k brings their taxable income up from $23,800 to $35,800.
The federal taxes on $23,800 total $2,662 for a post-tax total of $26,462 and the federal taxes on $35,800 would be $4,102 for a post-tax total of $31,698, meaning a $1k UBI would only give someone making $36k an extra $5,236 a year if it was taxable.
Withholding properly is something almost no companies have ever done in the time I have been inside actual companies. The employee is responsible for getting their withholding right, and this is, I don’t know, rarely done. You great with money smart people have this down. This is not normal for most. Again, very simplistic thinking on something that’s not simplistic. I’ll dumb it down.
People pay more at end of year. People get mad. People feel lied on. People change vote. GRRR.
You nailed it. This is the problem. People don’t think like you. They voted for Trump while thinking that was in their interest.
“I’m sorry Bob. I’d like to give you a raise this year but you’ll probably fuck up your tax withholding and blame me next April because you’re just such a fucking moron. And I just can’t risk you getting angry and leaving the company for a competitor. So no raise for you”
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It’s just stupid to get into the weeds of Yang’s policy as if he’s a viable candidate. It’s great that he’s made UBI a bigger thing to consider, but whether there’s an automatic deduction based on estimated taxes or perhaps you only get $700/month and claim the rest as a refund or whatever is not worth worrying about now. Yeah, an extra $3k tax bill at the end of the year would be an issue to address/prevent, but so what?
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Same as with tax-credits for home-buyers - €10K tax credit? Cool, the market can bear another €10K asking!
Cory, time to repatriate to Provo and open up that Vegan restaurant chain, because when your ‘love one another’ vibe mutates into this absurd moral equivalence it is time to fuck off.
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There’s a error in your calculation, it seems. In the first scenario you added the tax to the income whereas in the other scenario you subtracted it.
The difference between the two taxable amounts is roughly $1,500, which means that you get an additional $10,500, not $5,200.
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Not really. The housing market will be independent. But, in highly competitive housing markets the limit on what people will pay seems to be like 50% of their income or something crazy and any increase in income will drive up housing prices and rent. Medical and college seem to have similar markets where many people will just pay whatever they can scrape together or borrow. It’s not really a UBI problem though, not specifically.
You let me know when Bob gets a raise from $24,000 to $36,000 as it’s super common for average employees (who we’re talking about here) to get 50 percent raises. And almost anyone who has had something like that happen will not understand or care about the tax implications of that raise. In my first job, I had a 300 percent raise at one point. I got the impact of that immediately, because I saw it in my paycheck.
I do not understand why we are comparing ‘free’ money with something your company will add into withholding. That seems so incorrect to me and not even remotely equivalent to a ‘raise’.
You seem to be speaking about this as someone who has a lot of money where none of this matters to you. I guarantee you it will matter to a lot of others who don’t have much money right now.
I think it’s going to ultimately be an issue that creeps into the general election, regardless of candidate. That’s the only reason I think it should at least be thought about concretely related to this very simple question of whether it’s going to be thought of as taxable.