Who will run in 2020?

lol, I’m not doing that. I want M4A, and would love if there were no private insurance companies. No matter what you think, that’s not realistic especially with the voters in this country. M4A polls great until you say no private insurance. Then it doesn’t poll so great. It’s kind of like how the stuff in the ACA polls great, but then doesn’t poll so great when it’s called Obamacare. This is the country we live in.

People are dumb, and there’s a very high likelihood that we will have a ‘path’ to M4A rather than just a light switch. I don’t know enough about any of this to know what these alternate paths are, and am just throwing out random ideas that are meant to be picked apart.

I love it when he just gives up at the end of his responses when time is up. Sleepy Joe is the only candidate who does this and it’s always funny/sad.

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This is what a Bernie bro looks like.

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Public opinion is fluid. The goal should be trying to shift public opinion on M4A, not waiting for the people to catch up.

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/10/16/marianne-williamson-after-last-nights-debate-theres-no-way-im-dropping-out/

The economics on the question of public option vs true single payer are not complicated. For profit healthcare has looted and pillaged this country at least since WW2. We spend 6% more of GDP on healthcare than the next developed world competitor, and that’s worse than it sounds like because in real terms our GDP is significantly larger.

That 6% goes a lot of places, but ultimately it’s pure rent seeking and buys us a system with worse results than the rest of the world gets. We are doing absurd amounts of unnecessary medical work while simultaneously not doing huge amounts of massively +EV medical work because of insurance coverage… because the unnecessary puts money in the pockets of the rent seekers.

This is the big economic issue of our time. That money could be used to improve our schools, rebuild our infrastructure, do massively more basic research (including drug research into… cures. Something drug companies aren’t generally too keen on because the ROI isn’t as good as having a pill you need to take for the rest of your life), and generally make life better for everyone.

People ask how we’re going to pay for stuff. Reclaiming the 6% of GDP we’re wasting would be a damn good start. If you claim you’re a liberal/progressive/sensible person and think that we need to keep for profit healthcare you’re kidding yourself.

This issue is more important than any of the other issues (except maybe climate change) combined. It helps drive every bad thing in our country. It matters more than LGBTrights, racial justice, or making the tax code more progressive… because getting raped by healthcare costs is having a bigger impact on LGBT Americans, POC Americans, and poor Americans than literally anything else. It’s not just the fact that they are disproportionately affected by the terrible quality of our healthcare system, it’s that the 6% we are wasting could be spent on literally anything else.

So yeah Pete is a complete piece of shit. So is Joe Biden. So is Amy Klobuchar. Their stand on that stage at the 4th debate taking shots at M4A for the benefit of their own personal careers is literal proof that they are selfish assholes who don’t deserve to be elected dog catcher. Really any Democrat who took health lobby money to fight against public healthcare in this country falls into the same category. I know it’s a lot of names and includes pretty much the entire GOP. I could forgive some of these people, but if there was an option to have them all drummed out of public life with a snap of my fingers they’d be gone in 5 seconds or less.

This probably seems extreme and I’m sure skydiver is going to be really mad at me about it. I don’t particularly care. This is the issue I care the most about because it’s the biggest issue full stop. If our next president got nothing at all done but M4A they’d be the best president of this century probably through 2100.

I don’t care even a little bit how many eggs they have to break to get that done. And I don’t give even a microscopic amount of shit about the mostly administrative employees who will lose their jobs as a result of M4A. They need to find new jobs for the good of the country.

This issue is very black and white and very big. It is causing an unbelievable amount of human suffering when you zoom all the way out and look at the real impacts of both getting worse results in one of largest countries in the world’s health system + the loss of 6% of GDP in the supposedly wealthiest country in the world. It’s just bigger than any individual person. This thing is macro important and the only reason it didn’t get done in the 50’s, 70’s, 90’s, or 2000’s is just corruption plain and simple.

As to the incrementalist approach… we haven’t beat the healthcare lobby once yet. Even though we’ve tried god knows how many times. So let’s not pretend like planning on beating them more than once is a viable strategy. If we let them live they will do everything they can to weaken the healthcare system for their own profit until we are right back where we are today. This thing needs to be uprooted, burned, and completely replaced. We can’t keep any aspect of the current system because the current system is a cancerous tumor on our nation. You don’t keep pieces of tumor so that they can regrow. You cut them out completely.

Just about the only good news about the current system is that, like a tumor, it is starting to kill its host. Everyone can see it and everyone wants something done about it. If we fix it partially and push it back below the water line we are making a devils bargain that allows it to keep feeding on us to 50-75% of the current extent, and guarantee that our children/grandchildren will be facing an identical situation to the one we face today. That option is literally worse than doing nothing. At least the status quo is obviously terrible and is generating political will in favor of really changing it. We need to take this pain until it becomes so excruciating that we can justify doing the right thing. We do not need to remove 50% of the tumor so that we can be more comfortable while it regrows so that we can move on to smaller/easier things.

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:clap::clap::clap::clap:

End discussion

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If you skipped over boredsocial’s post because it was long, scroll back up and read it. That’s a :star2: post imo.

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Yeah this is why I think single-payer has to be the option in the US. I’m not actually religious about that in general, like Australia has a hybrid system and it works fine (especially since many of the entities providing private healthcare are not-for-profit). I’m not out clamouring for that to be replaced by an NHS. But the system in the US is so thoroughly fucked for so many reasons that step 1 really has to be destroying it completely.

I need to call out Yang too. He wants to go the public option route. One of the main reasons Bernie is creeping back up to my #1 spot.

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The most tilting part of action oriented movies for me is where the hero/villain wins a fight and lets the other person walk away mostly unscathed setting up an even bigger fight scene later in the movie. Put me in any of those situations and I gleefully murder my opponent while they are still on the ground. Because I don’t want to have another fight later in the movie lol. I just won this fight. If they wanted a ‘everybody goes home’ negotiated solution that was available before the big fight scene.

Nobody is ever going to tell me ‘you should have killed me when you had the chance’. If I beat you in a brutal fight with lethal weapons and somehow subdued you that’s nice and all… but you’re not going to live to fight another day. Because I’m not an idiot.

I’m fully aware that we probably won’t get public healthcare on the next big heathcare fight… but that’s fine. I want to force all the people who have been bought by the health insurance lobby into the light so that we can name them, shame them, and primary them. I don’t even care if we win… I’m still in favor of ruining these people just to send a message.

We can have a big healthcare fight and lose in 2020… and then have another one in 2024 and win… But the Democratic Party has to make public healthcare something it’s willing to go to the mat for, and make standing against it obvious treachery that we punish with political death.

We need to be about this the way the GOP is about any gun control at all. Something that people are barely even allowed to flirt with.

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https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1184783633158234113?s=19

And the difference between getting something done that actually helps people vs just scoring political points is not starting the negotiation from a compromised position. If you don’t start with an ambitious plan the middle ground ends up being garbage.

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Yeah Barack Obama’s biggest flaw as a president was that he was a terrible negotiator. The person who makes the first reasonable offer loses… which means that if circumstances force you to make a reasonable offer it needs to be a demand and not a negotiation.

Seriously if you give someone a reasonable offer you can’t let them counter offer. You have to stand your ground and say ‘yeah that offer was pretty fair so take it or leave it’. And if they leave it the deal is off. Little tweaks here and there are fine, but it’s important that you get something in return for them. You can’t compromise on the substance of the offer if you started anywhere near your exit point.

Source: Am literally a professional negotiator.

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Amy Klobuchar throws shit at employees and eats salads with a used comb. She has the charisma of a sloth and excites nobody. I truly don’t understand how a supremely unlikeable, banal person becomes a senator and remains on the POTUS debate stage.

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I can see how Klob became a senator but I have no idea wtf she’s even doing in the presidential race. There must be some inside baseball reason she’s still in it, like she wants to build her brand for a 2024 run or something.

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This fucking guy. He is the enemy, full stop.

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Yup. At the same time though he’s right about something… Medical spending is something like 600% of defense spending. We spend 3.1% of GDP on defense, but we spend 18% on medical. Now 12% of the medical spend at best is justified… but that still means we are wasting two entire military budgets worth of money on health care.

It’s the single biggest reason why our schools suck, our infrastructure sucks, and we have so much inequality… because news flash a huge chunk of the egregiously wealthy plutocrats benefit directly from our healthcare system. It’s by far the biggest source of rent in the country.

If you whacked healthcare back to 12% and had all the savings in a giant pool of cash the size of two militaries you could forgive all the student loan debt and two years later you’d be ready to redo infrastructure both without borrowing any money with a few hundred billion left over for cost overruns.

Again I’m sorry but in a lot of ways saying ‘I’m liberal but I like my healthcare the way it is’ is just a joke. You could flip that on its axis and say ‘I’m a complete GOP conservative and all that means but I’ll insta vote for public healthcare’ and immediately be a radically better public servant than the so called liberal. This issue is just too big for any combination of other issues to make up for.

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Biden might end up suppressing Dem voter turnout more than the entire GOP and its dirty bag of tricks.

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Yup. Guy is a real piece of shit and probably views himself as some kind of Amercan hero.

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He really should have left his legacy with those Obama Biden memes and rode off into the sunset. Instead he decided to ruin it all with the charge of the light brigade… and I’m not even a little bit sorry he’s getting dragged as a result. He always sucked he was just fortunate enough to be the right old white dude for Obama to use to balance the ticket. Him ruining his own legacy so completely is almost proof that there is some justice (and it being self inflicted makes it better IMO) in the world.

Honestly I’d almost rather another term with Trump than a Biden term. At least Trump can be blamed on the GOP and is systematically tearing shit up. Biden would smooth everything over removing all the beautiful opportunities for systemic reform we’re looking at now. The planet is cooking and we’re spending 18% of GDP on healthcare lol. I don’t want things to go back to ‘normal’. ‘Normal’ is going to create a terrible world for me when I’m Biden’s age and my future kids will spend most of their lives in a post apocalyptic nightmare world.

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