i’m not a pundit, i’m a random gen-x’er that scrunched his face at a trans woman getting a women’s volleyball scholarship.
Yeah but why? If they are following all the rules who gives a shit? Any idea how long the person has been transitioning? What their hormone counts are? If they even went through male puberty?
The number of trans athletes are a tiny minority of schoolchildren. Maybe instead of scunching your nose you can just… not do anything and let that person live their life
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that’s kinda my point though. if whoever decides has to have a long list of hormone counts and puberty dates and otherwise medically technical rules and then apply them all individually and fairly, just say “all transitions happening after 12:01am on 1/1/24, are happening without the ability to play competitive sports”?
everyone already transitioned they can continue to handle however they’ve been being handled bc those people didn’t transition knowing they couldn’t participate.
i know that’s getting to be pretty hypothetical, i mostly just think this topic is interesting. not too many issues can have either point of view sound convincing in small doses to me.
normally yeah obviously. but in this case, it affects other women’s ability to earn an athletic scholarship.
Not sure how you get from point A to point B here. Those two things are very different.
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So… trans women should not have any ability to get an athletic scholarship? Doesnt that affect THEIR ability to get a scholarship?
yeah i guess they are 
it would, yes.
It seems like you are relegating them to a lesser breed of human then. Cis males can get scholarships, cis females can get scholarships, hell, you specifically called out trans women, so trans men can get scholarships, but trans women just, cant?
Maybe we should just ship them off to an island somewhere instead?
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here you go…lol
alright man i’ll bow out. it ain’t that important to me. in the future, you should consider that in this specific case, lots of people don’t see it as black and white. and arguing that it is by shipping people to an island isn’t going to sway any of them.
hope you have a happy 2024.
I’m assuming that’s just hyperbole as that would be the same type of logical leap wiper attempted earlier. Doesn’t make sense.
I don’t think wiper is articulating his position very well, but it sounds like what he is trying to say (and wiper, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong) is that trans women should think of themselves as in a situation like Oscar Pistorius.
In order for Pistorius to compete in men’s sprinting events he had to wear those blades. Unfortunately those blades led to a significant advantage. But there is no other way for him to compete without an advantage, so instead we say he can’t do it. That’s unfortunate, but it is thought that the advantage is too great. No one wants to ship him to an island (let’s forget about the whole murder thing for now).
The analog to women’s sports is that is (according to some) there is no way to get them into competitions with cis women without them having an unfair advantage. So the remedy is, unfortunately, to not let them do it.
The response to this, of course, is that it should have nothing to do what randoms feel. Just like in Pistorius’ case scientists can figure shit out and come up with some rules that are fair (in Pistorius’ case, the result was they concluded it wasn’t possible). If you want to argue that, then what you’re really going to have to argue is the science behind whatever hormone levels they have come up with. “ZOMG, that not fair, she used to be a dude!” is not an adequate argument despite the fact that how one (or even many people) may feel.
Some people do occasionally make arguments referencing lasting, specific (this part is key) advantages that may be a result of going through male puberty, but these kinds of arguments are not what you normally see out in the wild.
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I do get your concerns, because the issue of a transwoman having an unfair edge in strength, etc. does logically feel like it could be a problem. But as with most things I defer to the experts, who have pretty much determined that it’s a non-issue for anyone who’s been on T blockers and estrogen for any period of time.
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Aside from the already mentioned point that trans students have their own rights to earn an athletic scholarship, no one is entitled to an athletic scholarship, especially if they’re not even as good as the worst player on scholarship.
Right, and this answers the thought process you are putting above Melk. They are competing within the rules that the governing bodies have put forth. Chalking it up to “they’re different and have an advantage so they cant get a college scholarship in athletics.” is ludicrous. Should we prevent people like Michael Phelps from being able to get scholarships? I dont think its particularly fair for fish people to compete against us normies. We should probably take away his gold medals too, after all he does have a significant advantage over everyone he every competed against.
And since we care so much about fairness in women’s sports all of a sudden, somebody get on the horn to Ledecky and let her know all of her records are null and void. After all, she has a significant advantage.
Think Yuv summed things up well in this post.
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There is a big gap between letting everyone do what they want and shipping them off to an island. Since neither of those extremes are actually good ideas or likely to be put in place, discussing the middle ground shouldn’t be looked at in a bad light because someone is going to have to make those decisions anyway.
I posted that answer myself. It’s right in the post.
People ARE making these decisions though, so the handwringing over “what should we do about these problematic trans women stealing opportunities from the normies” is not “discussing the middle ground” its blatant bigotry. There is a middle ground. Trans women are already abiding by it.
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I saw. My post wasnt intended to call you out but to reiterate what you said there. It was wprded poorly. Sorry about that
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Just to be clear. This position includes the below.
The trans kid thats already at huge risk of suicide and bullying isn’t allowed to play kids soccer.
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