here you go…lol
alright man i’ll bow out. it ain’t that important to me. in the future, you should consider that in this specific case, lots of people don’t see it as black and white. and arguing that it is by shipping people to an island isn’t going to sway any of them.
hope you have a happy 2024.
I’m assuming that’s just hyperbole as that would be the same type of logical leap wiper attempted earlier. Doesn’t make sense.
I don’t think wiper is articulating his position very well, but it sounds like what he is trying to say (and wiper, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong) is that trans women should think of themselves as in a situation like Oscar Pistorius.
In order for Pistorius to compete in men’s sprinting events he had to wear those blades. Unfortunately those blades led to a significant advantage. But there is no other way for him to compete without an advantage, so instead we say he can’t do it. That’s unfortunate, but it is thought that the advantage is too great. No one wants to ship him to an island (let’s forget about the whole murder thing for now).
The analog to women’s sports is that is (according to some) there is no way to get them into competitions with cis women without them having an unfair advantage. So the remedy is, unfortunately, to not let them do it.
The response to this, of course, is that it should have nothing to do what randoms feel. Just like in Pistorius’ case scientists can figure shit out and come up with some rules that are fair (in Pistorius’ case, the result was they concluded it wasn’t possible). If you want to argue that, then what you’re really going to have to argue is the science behind whatever hormone levels they have come up with. “ZOMG, that not fair, she used to be a dude!” is not an adequate argument despite the fact that how one (or even many people) may feel.
Some people do occasionally make arguments referencing lasting, specific (this part is key) advantages that may be a result of going through male puberty, but these kinds of arguments are not what you normally see out in the wild.
I do get your concerns, because the issue of a transwoman having an unfair edge in strength, etc. does logically feel like it could be a problem. But as with most things I defer to the experts, who have pretty much determined that it’s a non-issue for anyone who’s been on T blockers and estrogen for any period of time.
Aside from the already mentioned point that trans students have their own rights to earn an athletic scholarship, no one is entitled to an athletic scholarship, especially if they’re not even as good as the worst player on scholarship.
Right, and this answers the thought process you are putting above Melk. They are competing within the rules that the governing bodies have put forth. Chalking it up to “they’re different and have an advantage so they cant get a college scholarship in athletics.” is ludicrous. Should we prevent people like Michael Phelps from being able to get scholarships? I dont think its particularly fair for fish people to compete against us normies. We should probably take away his gold medals too, after all he does have a significant advantage over everyone he every competed against.
And since we care so much about fairness in women’s sports all of a sudden, somebody get on the horn to Ledecky and let her know all of her records are null and void. After all, she has a significant advantage.
Think Yuv summed things up well in this post.
There is a big gap between letting everyone do what they want and shipping them off to an island. Since neither of those extremes are actually good ideas or likely to be put in place, discussing the middle ground shouldn’t be looked at in a bad light because someone is going to have to make those decisions anyway.
I posted that answer myself. It’s right in the post.
People ARE making these decisions though, so the handwringing over “what should we do about these problematic trans women stealing opportunities from the normies” is not “discussing the middle ground” its blatant bigotry. There is a middle ground. Trans women are already abiding by it.
I saw. My post wasnt intended to call you out but to reiterate what you said there. It was wprded poorly. Sorry about that
Just to be clear. This position includes the below.
The trans kid thats already at huge risk of suicide and bullying isn’t allowed to play kids soccer.
(post deleted by author)
Id be curious what you think, Lt.
“kids soccer” wasn’t quite what i was picturing. but i think you know that.
I think this only makes sense if you actually are trying to say that it affects a “real woman’s” ability to get a scholarship.
Otherwise it’s a problem for every woman that isn’t as good as the worst scholarship athlete, as by definition they are all taking scholarships from other women that are worse than them and nobody cares about that.
To put a finer point on it, nobody cared that Peggy Sue was better at volleyball at Utah Valley State and got the 12th and final scholarship over Cindy Lou. But when Sarah Beth beats out Becky Ann for the 12th spot on the Lehigh Mountain Hawk vball squad we have a serious problem because guess why. Becky Ann earned it!
Right, and you can could correctly argue that in recent times, the World Athletics amongst other organizations have recently taken a stricter position that would negatively affect transgender athletes.
I mean, scholarships are literally being discussed atm and that conversation certainly falls within any reasonable interpretation of a middle ground. And those conversations will continue to take place in the future as things continue to evolve.
If you lose out on a volleyball scholarship because one girl who got one is trans you have no leg to stand on.
There is no way in hell, even in the modern era, that the (determined objectively by god) worst volleyball player to receive a scholarship is better than the best one not to.
I’ve attended a fair number of D1 NCAA women’s volleyball matches. At the highest level the teams have a number of players who are, quite frankly, genetic freaks. At the lower levels its not uncommon to see a player who is ridiculously tall but genuinely seems to not have much in the way of athletic skill, at least what you’d consider D1 level.
Its an absolute joke to say that a trans girl who never went through male puberty has an advantage that is unfair in the context of college volleyball.
See the posts above and below yours. Yes, worlds athletics orgs are making it more difficult right now, and trans athletes are abiding by those changes. Leave it at that. We dont need our fucking politicians chiming in and fearmongering over the fairness of it or not. We have groups that already do that.
This.
Supposed “small government” politicians are the ones pushing this. It’s fine that Brett Favre steals millions from needy families, but give one trans person a scholarship and they lose their shit.
Okay.
So are you going to take any responsibility for advocating for knee jerk positions based on republican scare tactics that have real world impacts on vulnerable kids?
Not picturing shit and thinking it through is not an excuse. It makes it worse.