War crimes in Ukraine: Just asking questions about both sides

[LouisCyphre]

@anon10396289

the West had not tried to get Ukraine into the western sphere of influence

I reject the premise

[anon10396289]

That’s fine. We can talk about that if you like. But do you understand that you rejecting the premise is irrelevant to what I was saying? Alex said A and B are different and it’s important. I’m saying A and B are the same. You rejecting the premise of B is irrelevant to that discussion.

[LouisCyphre]

Asked and answered:

@LouisCyphre

People like Mearsheimer present the second as merely an objective fact and then jump to the first when the fault is still 100% with the rapist.

[eyebooger]

This seems like an important question that was overlooked:

@NotBruceZ

Is it more accurate to say that the West tried to get Ukraine into the Western sphere of influence or that Ukraine tried to get into the Western sphere of influence and the West didn’t say no?

Someone like Mearsheimer might say the latter can’t be the case because countries like Ukraine don’t have agency.

[anon10396289]

Why is that important? It seems like the same thing to me.

[eyebooger]

What? That’s not the same thing at all.

[CaffeineNeeded]

SK can you explain why it’s not Saddam’s fault for his country getting invaded by not acquiescing fully to UN and USA demands?

[anon10396289]

How’s it different?

[CaffeineNeeded]

@CaffeineNeeded

You’ll see him follow that up with ‘What do you mean X?’ (This is also something he does to avoid a real response, and again to put the onus on you to drive discussion when he doesn’t have that real response)

.

[anon10396289]

oh ok ikes keep us all posted.

[eyebooger]

Scenario 1:

The West: Ukraine, you should hang out with us more often.
Ukraine: Okay.

Scenario 2:

Ukraine: Hey, The West. I really want to hang out with your group more.
The West: Okay.

[CaffeineNeeded]

the ironic bit is that you post damn near exactly like I did around 2015

[anon10396289]

Right, that’s what I don’t understand. Why is who approached who important at all? I have no idea which is closer to the truth by the way. The important thing in my mind is that Ukraine and the West took certain actions that had the likely effect of Ukraine being in the Western sphere of influence. Stuff like US special forces training Ukrainian units, US sending Ukraine weapons. Those policies and actions are what’s important, not whose idea it was.

[anon10396289]

oh man sounds bad ikes.

[NotBruceZ]

Understanding that Keeed claims they seem to think they look like the same thing is important when figuring out how to talk to him online.

[NotBruceZ]

How would you describe how you posted around 2015 without comparing yourself to anyone else?

[anon10396289]

What do you mean by this?

[NotBruceZ]

What do you think I mean by it?

[anon10396289]

I don’t know, that’s why I asked.

[CaffeineNeeded]

nitty on points that don’t particularly matter, aggressive for little reason, and obstinate even if wrong