OK? Is that title kind of provocative and edgelordy? Sure. He’s really saying that the Ukraine crisis wouldn’t have happened if the West had just stayed out of Ukraine. I think that’s true.
How do you go about doing that?
Yea I think you’re underestimating the importance of the distinction here. It’s why people keep bringing up to you “but what was she wearing” analogies.
I don’t know man I’m just a toddler brain but I don’t think 21st century civilizations generally have a terrible appetite for land wars in Europe. So that would be my preferred approach whether or not it would have worked in this case.
I don’t think the distinction is important at all. Why is it important?
Because it implicitly exculpates the aggresor.
Or wait, do you actually think “but what was she wearing” is a legitimate line of attack?
This idea is completely incompatible with
If all Mearsh is saying is that great powers gonna great power, then it is nonsense to say that the US should not meddle in Ukrainian affairs, because if the US sees meddling as being in its interest, it’s going to meddle: those pool balls were already in motion and cannot just be stopped. If Russia lacks the agency to choose to not invade Ukraine in response to Western meddling, then surely the West also lacks the agency not to meddle, and thus the West isn’t at all to blame. It’s just balls on the pool table.
On the other hand, if the West indeed has the agency to choose not to meddle, then Russia has the agency to choose not to invade, and as such, Russia would be the culpable party in the decision to invade. To pretend that the game is such that the West is the only actor with agency is incredibly stupid both from a theoretical and practical standpoint.
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OK I don’t think Russia is blameless here.
This is literally a semi-exculpatory post.
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Is that the issue, that I’m not sufficiently condemning Russia? What does a sufficient condemnation accomplish?
What does blaming the West accomplish?
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Everyone: Wtf is Russia doing, they are insane
Mersh: Why Ukraine is the West’s fault
~Pages and page of arguments about blame for the conflict
Keeeed: Is that the issue, that I’m not sufficiently condemning Russia?
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I’m talking about the apparent importance of the distinction between “Ukraine is the west’s fault” and “The Ukraine crisis and now war wouldn’t have happened if the West had not tried to get Ukraine into the western sphere of influence.” It seems totally trivial to me.
Is it more accurate to say that the West tried to get Ukraine into the Western sphere of influence or that Ukraine tried to get into the Western sphere of influence and the West didn’t say no?
Someone like Mearsheimer might say the latter can’t be the case because countries like Ukraine don’t have agency.
I’m talking about the distinction between “The rape is her own fault” and “The rape wouldn’t have happened if she didn’t try to go to club in a skimpy dress”.
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Right, I’m saying there isn’t a meaningful difference!
That you can’t see a meaningful difference is exactly the problem.
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What’s the difference?
Going to a club in a skimpy dress does not constitute fault.
wait are you saying that there’s a difference between:
To me it’s saying the same thing.
What’s your definition of “fault”? Moral culpability?