You are in the tiny minority of the world ok with letting Putin butcher Ukraine and our response should have been to do nothing.
You nailed it
I think it’s also that Russian air defense is pretty decent. At least according to the US defense guy that testified yesterday that Russia has SAM coverage over most of Ukraine. So it seems like right now both Russian and Ukrainian jets/helicopters are at high risk of being shot down (but I guess that drones are small enough they can still fly some missions).
That just means that most of their 30-40 year old planes have not been destroyed yet. Russia has 20 times as many and a more modern fleet.
How is this even remotely correct?
Bankrupting Russia reduces its ability to wage war in Ukraine.
Oligarchs have so far had their networths drop by tens of billions and we are only 14 days in.
You are fundamentally wrong about bankrupting Russia having no effect on oligarchs and Putin.
Sure feels like there’s a lot more sympathy for Russian citizens than for Ukrainian citizens out of some itt.
Maybe we should wait until Ukrainians aren’t being murdered en masse, and then we can debate about Russian citizens’ suffering? Just a thought.
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Sure. But they seem to be saving their jets for limited sorties with a high chance of success. Hence I was saying the rush for the extra 29 jets might not be as acute as one would think at first.
Sanctions are just a substitute for carpet-bombing Russian cities without risking planes, pilots, or the ramifications of direct military engagement.
Just because they use one strategy now doesn’t mean they couldn’t use another strategy if they had more planes. Maybe we should believe Ukraine when they say they need aircrafts.
But at what cost
We’re talking past each other at this point so I see no point in continuing.
Regarding sanctions:
This is what Ukraine looks right now
https://twitter.com/cliffordlevy/status/1501623425319809031?s=20&t=La_sTnyF_b7idlxmawnx5A
Russians can live without Starbucks, Adidas and Netflix for a while.
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Kiev is being surrounded slowly from the East and North East. They will do to Kiev what they are doing to Mariupol right now.
Ukraine needs the jets ASAP.
We are at war and Ukraine is being butchered. There is a cost to standing up to a rampaging dictator.
I believe them. No matter how quickly they needed or didn’t need them, Zelinsky would and should still be clamoring for them.
I was just speculating that possibly the seeming lack of sense of urgency by the US and Poland had some root in the current situation. That’s all.
I feel like if the US really thought the jets could turn the tide right now, they’d find a way to make it happen. At least I really hope so. Otherwise ugh.
I doubt either of those are accurate. The overriding consideration has to be if delivering fighter planes will escalate the conflict beyond Ukraine.
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The gopinks will die within a month without Adidas supplies.
Swear, can never win with some people.
Ex ante:
Q: Should we continue trading with a country actively engaging in genocide?
A: Of course not! Only our evil imperialistic CEOs would suggest such a thing.
Ex post:
Won’t someone think of the Happy Meals! You should sanction yourself!
No, the difference is one of basic moral responsibility. I’m not responsible for what Russia does, and have no control over it. I am, along with all other American citizens, responsible for what the US does.
The US is responsible for what Russia does (Realism). You are responsible for what the US does (morality). Therefore you are responsible for what Russia does. I don’t care about 100% consistency, but you have to admit there’s something wrong here.
I think @Huehuecoyotl was the first itt to point this out. I guess he got bored with us.
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The US is not responsible for what Russia does. If the US acts recklessly and predictably increases the chance of a Russian invasion, the US is responsible for that escalation.
Let’s say that later today the US unilaterally recognizes the independence of Taiwan, says Taiwan is a Real Country, and Biden unilaterally rejoins the Sino-American Mutual Defense Treaty. I think this would be pretty rash and not a good idea because it would really, really, really piss off China. Then let’s say tomorrow China begins assaulting Taiwan. Obviously China is responsible for waging an aggressive war. Would the US have any culpability in starting this war?
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