This isn’t even the first intense proxy war between the US and Russia since the Cuban Missile Crisis.
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“Hasn’t resulted in nuclear war so far” seems like an odd criteria to choose for success. Do you agree with Biden that the risk of nuclear war is higher than it’s been since the Cuban Missile Crisis? If so, that seems not great, right?
Any action other than immediate capitulation raises the odds of nuclear war
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What do you mean?
Russia’s threatening nuclear war not because it’s lost territory it previously had, but because it hasn’t gained enough territory from its conquest and is attempting to solidify its gains.
Russia could just as easily threaten nuclear war is Ukraine itself were defeating Russia. The only thing that would reduce the threat of nuclear war to 0% is for everyone to immediately capitulate to Russia’s demands.
Let’s say the US stops sharing battlefield intelligence with Ukraine and withdraws any CIA/special ops guys from Ukraine. Does that raise the risk of nuclear war or lower it?
Neither
And if the US stopped supplying weapons to Ukraine at all? Same thing?
I generally don’t think that the West should get involved in any of the former Soviet republics. I guess the upside is that Ukraine could end up in the US sphere of influence? It’s not clear to my why that benefits US citizens to any significant degree.
I think that should be the primary concern when governments are crafting foreign policy. How does this policy help our country and our citizens?
I understand this general framework would be a significant departure from US foreign policy of the past few decades.
Please avoid personal attacks - I hid one post that I thought went over the line. If you think this is a stupid discussion, you’re free to ignore it - but if you do choose to engage, please try to keep it substantive and not just personal attacks.
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It’s very possible that I’m missing something. What benefits do you think the US and her citizens would realize by successfully defending Ukraine?
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What if the US supplying arms to Russia decreased the risk of nuclear war?
What possible benefits could there be to a US citizen in preventing Russian hegemony in Eastern Europe, Western and Central Asia and the Middle East? It‘s mystery.
Great, I’m sealioning you? By asking your question back to you after I answered it the best I could? Talk to you never.
edit:
lol If you’re curious about what I think then feel free to ask. If you want a “bona fide list” of everything I’ve considered and rejected…uh…I’m the one doing the sealioning?
In any case, I’ll very seriously consider your list of demands for continued conversation. I’ll keep you posted.
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They’re within a range of actions that are reasonable and justified in the US frame and Putin and Russians certainly know that even if they don’t agree. They just thought they’d overwhelm Ukraine and it wouldn’t be a problem for them.
But that just does not matter now. A lot of stuff that Putin and Russians supporting him will not like is baked in now. Extending the war will only make it worse. Escalation would be disastrous.
He has choices. In the plus column, I think he’s rational in the economic sense so he can cut his losses if he has to. But in the minus column, he’s a procrastinator and he will likely delay making unpleasant choices until the remaining options are very, very bad for him. Of course he will make everyone else’s lives worse along the way. The choice is his and there’s not a hell of a lot we can do about it.
RU military turned out to be shit, maybe ~ 5th or 6th in europe. and keeed is here, yup, cave in immediately!
I don’t see any benefit at all to the US if Ukraine is in its sphere of influence, or any harm if Ukraine is in Russia’s sphere of influence. If Ukraine is in Russia’s sphere of influence what difference does that make? How would it help average Americans? I guess if you work for Raytheon your job is a little more secure now.
Well I do actually think that the US should consider the well being of non-US citizens in its foreign policy framework. What would be the best way for the US to decrease the level of violence in the world? That’s a remarkably easy question to answer: stop participating in it. I’m sure many non-US people would appreciate that. Ask a Yemeni or an Iraqi or an Afghan…the list goes on and on.
ukraine was very well developing nation before the invasion. it’s engineering job market was top notch. it’s also the breadbasket of europe. why wouldn’t you want them to trade with you?
It’s not just about being in one sphere of influence or another. Even from a pretty cynical perspective, war is generally bad for global trade and commodity prices. We’re feeling that right now, even if you give zero fucks about genocide.