Dude you’ve wildly misread and are being a dick needlessly
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I read that as him going after CNN, not denying the invasion.
Oh enlightened one, what is something most people here believe about the Ukraine conflict that you know to be false?
This. Examples or stfu.
It’s actually America’s fault!
Firstly, propaganda is not all lies. It’s public relations. Sometimes it is lies though and a good example of that itself, is the notion that propaganda is all lies. We use the word propaganda (nowadays) primarily for the enemy’s public relations.
So, it’s not necessarily about what it demonstrably right or wrong, but has the US public been subjected to propaganda and has that affected some people’s ideas? Well, it used to be pretty normal for fairly well informed and thoughtful people who were less exposed to public relations to suspect that Russia would be threatened by NATO expansion and, feeling threatened might be aggressive. That absolutely was not limited to John Mearshimer and SenorKeeed. And when they expressed those ideas, other people didn’t find them controversial. Here’s an example of it from back in December:
I don’t think any NATO countries border Russia. Russia really wouldn’t like that, and it’s why they are thinking about conquering Ukraine rather than let them go to NATO.
That’s you saying that. I can’t quote it because the older thread is locked. December isn’t that long ago, but it was before the drums of war were beating so loudly and it was before that idea was so severely frowned upon. A few months, a lot of “let me be clear” press conferences, and a lot of blue checkmark tweets later and people may not even remember that they even had those thoughts.
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Well, one explanation for that change is American propaganda, or maybe, maybe the explanation is just a few posts down when I admitted I just didn’t know the extent of NATO and have some gaps in my geography:
Also Lithuania and Poland thanks to Russia’s exclave! Didn’t realize Norway touched Russia, and didn’t realize that the Baltics were in NATO. Forgot about the exclave when forgetting that Poland bordered Russia.
Even now, I actually agree that NATO expansion pisses Putin off, but I disagree that pissing Putin off is something that should be avoided at all costs. I think that the NATO membership of the Baltics is a big reason why Putin picked Ukraine to invade instead. I think we should have let Ukraine into NATO sooner, because that actually would have prevented this invasion.
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I was firing a shot at you Victor. At you.
What percentage of the blame do you put on USA? Not a gotcha. I don’t have any response planned or even any real idea of how you’d answer
Somewhere between 0% and 100%.
Inclusive?
As a Woke Radical Socialist I assure you that I am always inclusive.
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Ok you’re spared from canceling. This time.
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Ok cool. So we’ve established that we all agree, there is a genocide going on. And you’re … against arming it’s victims. Ok.
I haven’t kept up entirely with this conversation so maybe I’m missing something…but opposing an invasion and supporting the invaded side that had shown no interest in aggression is the anti-war position. The only anti-war position.
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I oppose punching people in the face, and I simultaneously think that if a would-be rapist attacks a woman, I have no problem with her punching him in the face.
Caitlyin is an idiot.
Did I miss some good-faith offer of peace from Putin that would be acceptable to a majority of Ukrainians?
Caitliyn thinks the US started and is extending the war and is choosing to arm literal Neo-Nazis there to bog down Russia in a quagmire so that it collapses and eventually gets Balkanized and thus is permanently removed as a threat to American global domination. So all that really needs to happen to end the war is for the US to say that Ukraine won’t join NATO, and then Russia will go home. I’m not saying Victor buys into all that also, but I’m also not not saying that.
The US is not at war in Ukraine, but an AUMF was introduced today.
If only those Nazis in Kyiv and decadent imperialists in Washington had pinky-sweared hard enough that Ukraine would never, ever, ever join NATO there’d be peace.