Kevin McCarthy too busy with cocaine orgy-gate to fix his white nationalist problem.
https://twitter.com/RollingStone/status/1511910799320756225?t=UrqDjk0-zW67t3q8wBKy3g&s=19
it wasn’t auschwitz, but it was approximately srebrenica or some other instance in that war? this is some very thin ice dude. like tomorrow the civilian executions could turn out to be in the tens of thousands like grozny, and you will have been the best kind of technically correct for a day we called putin hitler, while not all facts had been confirmed? that’s a very small upside. but if by the end it turns out putin only killed less than ten thousand non-combatants, you will have the rest of your life to correct those who compared with holocaust incorrectly.
and c’mon, if there’s one thing that needs a groupthink it’s definitely issues like genocide. you are not supposed to put “well akshually” qualifiers on instances where whole towns were terrorized with de facto exterminations. telling them it was only red fields and not gas chambers is offensive af. you are supposed to be horrified at the mere possibility of genocide because it could literally happen to any group
(from the closed first thread)
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We haven’t sent any planes and Czech is the only NATO country that sent tanks so far.
Ukrainian MPs are openly saying this in interviews.
When this war is over, comparing Mariupol to Auschwitz will be very appropriate.
Encirclement of an entire town.
Destruction of 100% of infrastructure and buildings.
Mass rapes.
Mass torture of civilians.
Mass starvation.
Denial of human corridors.
Denial of humanitarian aide.
Mass graves.
And the last one will be destruction of human evidence by crematoriums.
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The goal is to give just enough military aide so that Ukraine can keep fighting, but don’t give enough that Ukraine crushes Russia too hard (or as they say, escalate the war).
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https://mobile.twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1511667812137377804
I agree whole heartedly with ex Belgium Prime Minister.
Another goal is to keep buying oil and gas to the tune of 1B$ a day from Russia so Putin can keep his war machine running.
Also still going very well for this goal.
Auschwitz wasn’t even a town (I hope I’m not wrong but I am Polish and I thought it was just random rural areas near Krakow) … Do you mean comparable to the Holocaust?
A city that turned into a russian death camp.
Ok … I still think it’s a weird comparison (I understand it isn’t originally yours but the Mayor’s)
If true it’s stuff like this that makes it genocide. It’s more than a nod and wink from direct senior officers it’s a direct line of orders from ever higher superiors.
For the record I think and have thought for a while that Russia is committing genocide in Ukraine.
Oświęcim is a small town of a little over 30.000 inhabitants today. I am not sure how big it was in WW2, but it has got a historic town hall and a market square.
I still think you cannot compare the atrocities of Mariupol to the holocaust or its manifestation in and singular place. The Russians are killing the population in order to reach a military goal, Germans killed Jews in the Holocaust in Order to kill Jews - there was no other strategic goal attached to it.
I think comparing the atrocities of the Russian army to the treatment of the non-Jewish population in Eastern Europe by the Wehrmacht is closer.
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No, they say they’re clearly doing it to achieve a political goal: the de-ukrainization of Ukraine. The removal of any Ukrainian identity by mass resettlement and ‘liquidation’ of the political class and anybody else who might resist. IOW, genocide. The military goals are in service to this political goal, not the other way around. So what if they’re not herding them into labor camps yet.
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Yeah I’m overall immensely hesitant to compare genocides in general because it’s kind of perverse. And I didn’t know about that town! I’m fairly sure it was just rural back then but this is just based on ramblings of my father who never even finished primary school in Poland (so a Western University education as he jokes).
Read Russia’s Ukraine Manifesto that they just put out a few days ago.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/tvc9kq/russian_state_news_agency_published_a_piece/
It’s a final solution type manifesto. It ain’t just a military goal, its a political one.
Auschwitz the camp (or camps; there were 3 and most visitors go to 2 of them) is a must-visit if you get the chance. If you are someone who drinks you should also plan to go and have a couple of them afterwards. It’s not an easy thing to really see the scale of first hand, but it’s something everyone should see, as long as they feel like they can handle it.
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The military goal is to control the town and create a land-bridge between mainland Russia and Crimea. Of course the war as a whole has a political goal. It seems to have started out as subjugating Ukraine and since the Ukrainians did not welcome Russia as liberators, the rhetoric has shifted to something that reminds me a lot of Nazi-“Lebensraum”-rhetoric.
Still there is a difference to the Holocaust. Sadly, there are hundreds of atrocities against populations through the ages that can be compared to what is happening in Ukraine - the German occupation of Poland, Katyn, Nanjing to name just a few from WW2. No matter what European Jews would have done or how the war would have gone on - extermination was always the goal of the Nazis.
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I have pretty high confidence that the Ukrainians are going to prosecute the soldiers who murdered those POWs. Not because I think the Ukrainians are saints, but because murdering POWs undermines the military objective of defending Ukraine. Similarly, if your goal is to conquer Donbas, the last thing you want to do is start executing civilians in the exurbs of Kyiv. These atrocities put the political settlement where Russia gets Donbas after a short war out of reach.
Even at a tactical level, you have guys manning the torture chambers and rounding up civilians to kill when your convoys are getting ambushed by Ukrainian infantry. That’s not militarily rational.
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