There is literally one guy who made the decision to invade, and there is one guy who could end this war today. They are the same guy, and his name is Vladimir Putin. Even Zelenskyy doesn’t have this power, because it’s unlikely his countrymen would fully surrender if he proposed total capitulation to Russia. Blubbering about NATO this and NATO that as some sort of equivalent imperialism is a total distraction that neglects the will of the Ukrainian people (or at least their elected representatives) and that NATO isn’t committing genocide against Ukrainians to get them into the alliance.
As much as you and Victor want to allude to some peaceful resolution that your forum enemies reject because of their wanton bloodlust, I have yet to see one actually posted that isn’t just granting Russia the territory it’s currently seized, the right to do whatever they want to the Ukrainians there, and the time to ream and try again. It’s not a winning strategy to repeatedly tell a thief that he can keep what he’s taken as long as he pinky swears not to take any more.
The NYT editorial puts forth the claim that thousands of Ukrainians died who wouldn’t have but for US support. Bullshit. Putin is on the record that he wants to exterminate the entire Ukrainian culture, and he’s certainly acting like it. In conquered territories, it’s not like civilians are let be to be dutiful citizens of the new Russian territory. Men of fighting age are executed, and everyone else is being shipped to concentration camps deep inside Russia. It’s utter nonsense to count the people who died in combat but not the ones who died because of Putin’s genocidal aims or the lives potentially spared because he was thwarted.
negotiated settlement has to be led by ukraine, not by third parties and imposed onto ukraine. which would amount to telling ukr to just roll over.
discussions of where this might lead have been occurring since at least 2014, and much before that. we arrived at the bloody conflict not because ukraine is being armed, but because ukraine lacked defensive preparedness before the invasion. turns out ukrainian people really did want and need someone on that wall.
Regardless of where fault lies in a conflict, dehumanizing and reveling in death of common soldiers is really inappropriate, particularly for a left leaning forum, imo.
This type of characterization is no different than dehumanizing Japs or Gooks or any number of past examples. It leads to worse not better outcomes, in both the war and any peace to follow.
Maybe some of us aren’t so blinded with propaganda that shocking dehumanizing terms still resonate with us.
If someone posted “be glad the ragheads are dying by the hundreds!” in a discussion about Syria, I’d have no problem with left leaning people pointing it out.
So one thing that super bugs me in this exchange is being told we can’t be happy about Russian military deaths. These people are taking part in what can easily be described as a genocide with the forced deportations and murder, and I’m not supposed to be unhappy when they fail?
This is a good guys and bad guys situation here. Every Russian military death in Ukraine is a good thing.
It’s the same as rejoicing every time someone earns their Herman Cain award, which I am happy to encourage, but I understand why some people are uncomfortable with it.
this is covered at length within Russia by opposition lawyers. there are pro-bono lawyers and non-profits that help refuseniks. they are currently going through every medium there are capable of spreading that message. the law (lolRussianLAW) clearly states that noone can be compelled to stay in the army while war or martial law is not declared. to date, there have been no instances of criminal charges at those who refused to serve, or are submitting letters of resignation.
don’t be fooled just because the generals are blackmailing you with repercussions, your best chance is STILL to stop participating in the war altogether.
this is a useful lesson for military personnel of all countries.
What are people actually arguing about? I suspect everyone agrees that the ranking is Russian soldiers stay home with their families > Russian soldiers invade Ukraine and get killed > Russian soldiers invade Ukraine, don’t get killed, and deport a bunch of civilians to concentration camps.
I dunno. It seems like some people have that second one in last place because killing Russian soldiers is in American interests, which must be opposed always, no matter what anyone else is doing.
