On my part, I have a lot of interest in polling and public opinion, so I am interested in accurately describing the shape of public opinion on this and other issues. So, I think stuff like this is useful to know.
I don’t think most here would argue against outright not supporting trans rights, but there’s a legitimate question about how much of a priority should be placed on such issues. It’s part of the debate over whether Democrats spend too much time on identity politics and not enough on broader economic issues.
Chief’s Planet? Come on, Oreo. I see where you’re coming from, but I can assure you that this discussion would have been a lot worse over there.
Also, unlike CP, you have a persuadable audience. If this disturbs you so much, perhaps you could start a thread on the subject and lay out your position. It is clear that many here would be interested (in a good way) in that.
That’s fine but there are levels of anti-trans. For example, do you think that it is reasonable to lump Riverman in with the typical CP poster. If every anti-trans person were only as anti-trans as Riverman, the lives of trans people would orders of magnitude better than it is now.
You’ve come into this thread swinging at trans people before spending time to read up on the issue. So, maybe no, you arent as fucking ready to listen as you think you are.
Yeah. The fainess issue here is some high level athlete who might come 4th instead of 3rd at a meet because someone swam better than them. Not a bunch of kids being bullied out of sport all over america. Fuck off with this shit.
There’s more than one way for an XY person to come out with a female body plan, to look plainly female, to have typical female hormone levels, and to otherwise never have the slightest idea that she had anything intersex about her until a karyotype assay. Seems pretty rude to force such people to compete with males. Not only that, if the standard is going to be genetic analysis as a prerequisite for participation in sports, that’s going to open up a whole lot of paternity cans of worms.
ok, i don’t have kids, but i think this scenario is not the reason 99% of kids are in sports. Winning races, looking forward to olympic trials or even scholarships. scholarships are literally a money issue, if college was cheap enough it wouldn’t be a problem. if scholarship money was more available it wouldn’t be a problem, so it’s really just a medals issue.
and since i don’t have kids, consider this a stupid hypothetical. but it seems to me that at some very near future prosthetic tech is going to make amputees better at sports. say replace their feet with a prosthetic that allows them to be the fastest runner, or the fastest swimmer, or a crazy good mountain climber. this is going to happen. in the pure medal count way, the hypothetical kid who might be robbed of a medal is in a time crunch against technology.
but as a parent in sports, you would hopefully not use this as an opportunity to keep kids with amputated limbs out of school sports, or your kid’s division or whatever. because that would be inhumane and arbitrarily segregate kids who should be teammates.
the trans in sports issue is the same for me. let them be on varsity teams and compete in the meets together. let the ncaa decide how many medals they want to award.
I don’t think this is entirely true. Combat sports is a prime example where a recently transitioned woman who is still disproportionately stronger than her opponent can severely injure or even kill her opponent in the ring.
Problem is if you bring up this rare exception that cuts a hole in a broad position, one side thinks you’re transphobic and the other uses it as a springboard for spreading conspiracy theories to further stigmatize trans people.
It’s really a lose-lose position to have in a highly polarized society no matter how you word it.
But this digs deeper. If gender really is a spectrum rather than a binary choice, then should sports be divided by biological sex? Doesn’t do that reinforce outdated ideas of gender? Wouldn’t it be more fair and representative of the nature of gender to test human biochemistry to define who fits in what category? Should those categories even exist? If so, what should they called? I honestly have no idea how any of this would work but it is something that will inevitably come up at some point in my lifetime as a culture war issue once people are done with the whole bathroom thing. People who are LBGT activists should be prepared for this inevitable attack against them.
i would be horrified of a big kid beating down on smaller kids in some type of MMA/martial arts tournament anyway. it would not have to be a trans issue before i’d probably think about pulling kids out of that sport.
There’s nothing fair about youth sports. The biggest, fastest, strongest kids win. Those who go through puberty first crush. Gladwell is a hack, but he saw that for hockey, early birthdays were hugely over represented in professional players. This is because bigger kids got advanced at younger ages.