Trans Issues In Sports/Society

I kind of think the burden is on you to read both your posts and mine. Let’s start with this

You pretty much said exactly this. Let’s play back the tape

So, you kind of have to pick one of those and go with it. Now that we’ve read your posts together, let’s read mine:

There are all sorts of things one could do solve a variety of menstrual symptoms. Some of those things (e.g. basic science research) are not pathways that will get people rich. Some of them are (e.g. someone coming up with a new drug that is targeted at a well elucidated pathway). This is in contrast to the initial example of uterine transplants, where it would really be hard to come up with a plausible way for someone who comes up with a the major breakthrough to get rich.

I then get even more specific as it seems you’re quite confused about how all of this works.

To counter that you give an article loaded with examples of people who can’t plausibly get rich from the type of research that they are describing (and let’s not forget that was your original point " This shit would make trillions") and no examples of people who actually could make literal or even figurative trillions.

This isn’t just a problem with menstrual issues. It is a fairly well known problem that pharmaceutical companies have little interest in pursuing drugs or treatments that aren’t going to make them any money. Take one example in the article you posted: sildenafil. Why would Pfizer spend any money to research that. If they found it to be useful, anyone can buy it over the internet from India or China for almost nothing. Sure, they would have some benefit because some people would get the drug through them, but very likely it would not be enough for them to recoup the costs of getting a new FDA indication approved (which is massive).

What a company like Pfizer will do is look for some sort of new drug that will address that kind of problem. Here is an example of that:

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/myovant-sciences-and-pfizer-announce-positive-one-year-data

Now I’ve got some Netflix to watch, so I’m not going to do your homework for you, but it should be obvious to you if Pfizer can get an FDA approved indication for Relugolix for endometriosis and get insurers to cover it, they will in fact make a fuckton of money. And guess what? They are actually researching it!

Are there misogynists making decisions at Pfizer? Probably. Would those misogynists set that aside to make a fat pile of cash. Sure looks like it!

So, just to make it crystal clear, pharmabro misogynists are absolutely fine at looking into cures for any women’s health issue that will make them a lot of money. If it won’t they aren’t.

People who give out grants from non-profits or the government can’t really “make trillions” so that incentive (which, once again is what you brought up) is irrelevant to them and any misogynists there will just keep on doing the misogyny.

You consistently approach discussion incredibly confrontationally when it ismt warranted. It’s not fun talking to you.

The fact that you frequently do this to back up uninformed and problematic takes makes this doubly less fun.

I won’t be talking to you again.

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I love it. I posted you a link of precisely the thing you were claiming didn’t exist and I’m uninformed? Chef’s kiss stuff.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/2023/08/25/carlos-santana-anti-trans-apology/

Carlos Santana goes on mid-concert rant against trans people.

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Longer article (but shorter interview)

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It’s incredible how many people failed to learn this in health class.

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I think many people learn it. That tweet is language nittery more than anything else. What they normally mean is “androgen” which a perfectly acceptable term and if someone wants to colloquially refer to an androgen as a “male hormone”, I don’t think that’s a huge offense especially if they understand the underlying point.

If they don’t understand the underlying point, then that’s the real problem. Word choice is just a possible symptom.

My opinion is about the way that makes the most sense to do things, not the scientific viability of devising some complicated framework to do something. So yes, it’s based on feels.

Yeah, I just don’t think that’s the best way to make decisions.

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The question of “how to divide sports” isn’t a scientific question; it will always come down to what you are calling “feels” in some way or another. The science can inform the feels but it can’t answer the question for you.

Your implied opinion of “the science says it’s theoretically possible to do x, y, z and therefore we should” is also feels.

Not really. If doing something has no detriment to anyone, but benefit to some, then you can make a pretty easy utilitarian argument that you should do that thing. That’s more than feels.

You are hand waving away the cost/benefit analysis.

No one is objecting to trans women in sports because it costs too much

Not cost as in money.

You are claiming, without evidence, that the utility gained from doing this is net positive. But that’s completely subjective and based on ~zero evidence so it’s again basically “feels”

Can you give an example of the type of evidence you would count? If we stipulate that the scientists are correct and there is no disadvantage in a particular sport, then all we are left with is the benefit to trans women. Is that what you need evidence of?

My position is that it’s basically impossible to provide the evidence and that’s why it’s a subjective question. It’s like arguing what ages to cut off the youth divisions of some sport or something; you might be able to provide some data that argues for one thing or the other but at the end there is no hard answer.

For example, there are apparently a lot of right wing nut jobs who derive a lot of negative utility from trans women in sports. How much weight do you want to give that utility loss? Presumably the answer is ~zero (which I agree with btw) but it’s, again, a fundamentally subjective question.

You’re telling me we can’t get some expert psychiatrists to testify to the benefits of inclusion to trans women?

I’m sure you can.

Can you quantify it?

Once you’ve finished that impossible task, what is the objective weighting of that benefit against literally every other factor (the opinions of cis female athletes, the increased burden on everyone doing on this hormone screening, the opinions of sports fans (?), etc, etc, etc)?